Australian Politics Forum - Time to overhaul political donations

Dnarever

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #195 - Jan 21^st, 2016 at 7:23pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 21^st, 2016 at 4:54pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 6:13pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 2:15pm:

You must have picked up a case of pedantry from peccahead.

Pedantry is the last accusation of the terminally incorrect.

Well that's original at least. Stupid, but original.

He is probably incorrect in general terms but it looks about right in the specific case.

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cods

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #196 - Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 7:08am

bringing this topic back to donations. Roll Eyes

is there any chance of PUP being investigated for receiving donations over $6mil from Qld Nickle?...

ICAC discovered some shady very damaging fund raising...yet from memory it didnt amount to anything like this????...

PUP has literally bled Qld Nickle dry....

this would have to be a case for the police fraud squad surely?.

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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #197 - Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 12:10pm

cods wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 7:08am:

is there any chance of PUP being investigated for receiving donations over $6mil from Qld Nickle?...

why? as long as the donations were declared there is nothing illegal

cods wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 7:08am:

PUP has literally bled Qld Nickle dry....

this would have to be a case for the police fraud squad surely?.

more likely ASIC

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cods

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #198 - Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 12:41pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 12:10pm:

cods wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 7:08am:

is there any chance of PUP being investigated for receiving donations over $6mil from Qld Nickle?...

why? as long as the donations were declared there is nothing illegal

cods wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 7:08am:

PUP has literally bled Qld Nickle dry....

this would have to be a case for the police fraud squad surely?.

more likely ASIC

funny how you found ICAC discovering corruption among $10.000 donations and even including a $3000 bottle of wine.. as a good thing..

yet one man can take $6mil out of a business and call it a donation......even though it puts that business on the path to receivership and mens jobs being lost..

but its all OK with you as long as he declared it....as a donation... Roll Eyes

as for ASIC......are they interested in FRAUD>..or in what could be called embezzlement?..

at least thats how I see it..

[urlhttp://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/investigations/clive-palmer/clive-palmer-in-frame-for-60m-clawback-of-donations-and-loans/news-story/e8b8f8e6914ea0b924d102e56da1c177][/url]

by the look of this.....$6 mil is very much on the lean side..of what he was capable of doing..

and it smacks even more of Alan Bond...

this man was a genius at slight of hand.. Angry

perhaps you approve as long as it was declared. Roll Eyes

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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #199 - Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 12:45pm

cods wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 12:41pm:

yet one man can take $6mil out of a business and call it a donation

if he wants to take his money and donate it to his political party that is his problem, as long as its all above board, I really couldn't care less.

cods wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 12:41pm:

even though it puts that business on the path to receivership and mens jobs being lost

again, it's HIS company.

cods wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 12:41pm:

but its all OK with you as long as he declared it....as a donation.

As long as it's legal, I really don't care. I didn't see you complaining when Newscorp donated millions in advertising to the liberal party and then sacked hundreds of reporters.

cods wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 12:41pm:

as for ASIC......are they interested in FRAUD>..or in what could be called embezzlement?..

against shareholders, yes. cods wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2016 at 12:41pm:

perhaps you approve as long as it was declared

Approve? he doesn't need my approval. As long as it was legal and he was using his money, I don't care.

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Labor voter

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #200 - Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 6:26am

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:32pm:

It was in the early hours of Friday, March 22, 1963 when Alan Reid was reporting on the ALP's Federal Conference. It was held in the Canberra landmark, Kingston Hotel. Inside the hotel were 36 ALP delegates deciding what Labor Party policies the looming election was to be fought on.
Outside the hotel, waiting in the Canberran cold, stood the ALP leader Arthur Calwell and his deputy Gough Whitlam.
Neither were delegates to the Conference and could take no decisive part.
Alan, ever the astute reporter, awoke his photographer mate, Vladimir Paral, and that morning the iconic pics were blazened across the pages of the Tele.
The ALP didn't win that election. If they had won, the Calwell/Whitlam Labor Government would have followed the doctrine of 36 unelected, unknown unionists.
Little has changed since. You see, the Labor Party is the creation of unions and is jealously guarded as the political arm of power-brokers. Those who do well within the union structure are rewarded with one of many inner-suburban "safe" seats. Until recently a Labor Prime Minister was unable to even choose his Ministers.

Mari were you alive back in 1963 and if you were was that story in any other Sydney papers like the Sydney Morning Herald, The Sun or the Daily Mirror or was it only in the Daily Telegraph and yes I was alive back then so I know so don't come up with your bullshyte.

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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #201 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 5:12pm

You can make large donations without declaring them

In Australia parties and donors only need to declare donations above $12,800. That means any money below this amount is private.

And $12,800 is just the beginning for those looking to splash some cash around and avoid public scrutiny.

That declaration limit only applies for donations to a single branch or arm of the organisation. Donate $12,799 to the federal Liberal Party (or Labor Party if that's your preference), and then another to their Victorian brethren and you're under no obligation to declare it.

With the major parties having a branch in each state, as well as a federal arm, this opens the door for private donations on a much larger scale.

However, it should be noted that Labor and the Greens voluntarily declare any donations above $1,000

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-01/here's-what-the-latest-political-donations...

they should at the very least make donations public information IMMEDIATELY ... it is ridiculous to wait so long before making the information public, and counter productive when it comes to stamping out corruption

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Our esteemed leader:
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mariacostel

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #202 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 6:10pm

Labor voter wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2016 at 6:26am:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 16^th, 2016 at 4:32pm:

It was in the early hours of Friday, March 22, 1963 when Alan Reid was reporting on the ALP's Federal Conference. It was held in the Canberra landmark, Kingston Hotel. Inside the hotel were 36 ALP delegates deciding what Labor Party policies the looming election was to be fought on.
Outside the hotel, waiting in the Canberran cold, stood the ALP leader Arthur Calwell and his deputy Gough Whitlam.
Neither were delegates to the Conference and could take no decisive part.
Alan, ever the astute reporter, awoke his photographer mate, Vladimir Paral, and that morning the iconic pics were blazened across the pages of the Tele.
The ALP didn't win that election. If they had won, the Calwell/Whitlam Labor Government would have followed the doctrine of 36 unelected, unknown unionists.
Little has changed since. You see, the Labor Party is the creation of unions and is jealously guarded as the political arm of power-brokers. Those who do well within the union structure are rewarded with one of many inner-suburban "safe" seats. Until recently a Labor Prime Minister was unable to even choose his Ministers.

Mari were you alive back in 1963 and if you were was that story in any other Sydney papers like the Sydney Morning Herald, The Sun or the Daily Mirror or was it only in the Daily Telegraph and yes I was alive back then so I know so don't come up with your bullshyte.

So you are actually claiming it DIDNT HAPPEN? Wow, you labor voters are stupider than anyone could have expected. It is a well known fact and even studied in Political Science courses when talking about the evolution of the modern ALP.

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mariacostel

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #203 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 6:12pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 5:12pm:

You can make large donations without declaring them

In Australia parties and donors only need to declare donations above $12,800. That means any money below this amount is private.

And $12,800 is just the beginning for those looking to splash some cash around and avoid public scrutiny.

That declaration limit only applies for donations to a single branch or arm of the organisation. Donate $12,799 to the federal Liberal Party (or Labor Party if that's your preference), and then another to their Victorian brethren and you're under no obligation to declare it.

With the major parties having a branch in each state, as well as a federal arm, this opens the door for private donations on a much larger scale.

However, it should be noted that Labor and the Greens voluntarily declare any donations above $1,000

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-01/here's-what-the-latest-political-donations...

they should at the very least make donations public information IMMEDIATELY ... it is ridiculous to wait so long before making the information public, and counter productive when it comes to stamping out corruption

You still need to identify examples of alleged actual corruption caused by this. If you can't then you are simply complaining about a problem that doesnt actually exist in significant measure.

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Bam

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #204 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 7:13pm

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 6:12pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 5:12pm:

You can make large donations without declaring them

In Australia parties and donors only need to declare donations above $12,800. That means any money below this amount is private.

And $12,800 is just the beginning for those looking to splash some cash around and avoid public scrutiny.

That declaration limit only applies for donations to a single branch or arm of the organisation. Donate $12,799 to the federal Liberal Party (or Labor Party if that's your preference), and then another to their Victorian brethren and you're under no obligation to declare it.

With the major parties having a branch in each state, as well as a federal arm, this opens the door for private donations on a much larger scale.

However, it should be noted that Labor and the Greens voluntarily declare any donations above $1,000

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-01/here's-what-the-latest-political-donations...

they should at the very least make donations public information IMMEDIATELY ... it is ridiculous to wait so long before making the information public, and counter productive when it comes to stamping out corruption

You still need to identify examples of alleged actual corruption caused by this. If you can't then you are simply complaining about a problem that doesnt actually exist in significant measure.

Do you really think those involved in corruption would make it public knowledge? Grin

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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #205 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 8:04pm

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 6:12pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 5:12pm:

You can make large donations without declaring them

In Australia parties and donors only need to declare donations above $12,800. That means any money below this amount is private.

And $12,800 is just the beginning for those looking to splash some cash around and avoid public scrutiny.

That declaration limit only applies for donations to a single branch or arm of the organisation. Donate $12,799 to the federal Liberal Party (or Labor Party if that's your preference), and then another to their Victorian brethren and you're under no obligation to declare it.

With the major parties having a branch in each state, as well as a federal arm, this opens the door for private donations on a much larger scale.

However, it should be noted that Labor and the Greens voluntarily declare any donations above $1,000

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-01/here's-what-the-latest-political-donations...

they should at the very least make donations public information IMMEDIATELY ... it is ridiculous to wait so long before making the information public, and counter productive when it comes to stamping out corruption

You still need to identify examples of alleged actual corruption caused by this. If you can't then you are simply complaining about a problem that doesnt actually exist in significant measure.

13 liberal MP's found out by ICAC disagree with you Cheesy

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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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mariacostel

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #206 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 10:42am

Bam wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 7:13pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 6:12pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 5:12pm:

You can make large donations without declaring them

In Australia parties and donors only need to declare donations above $12,800. That means any money below this amount is private.

And $12,800 is just the beginning for those looking to splash some cash around and avoid public scrutiny.

That declaration limit only applies for donations to a single branch or arm of the organisation. Donate $12,799 to the federal Liberal Party (or Labor Party if that's your preference), and then another to their Victorian brethren and you're under no obligation to declare it.

With the major parties having a branch in each state, as well as a federal arm, this opens the door for private donations on a much larger scale.

However, it should be noted that Labor and the Greens voluntarily declare any donations above $1,000

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-01/here's-what-the-latest-political-donations...

they should at the very least make donations public information IMMEDIATELY ... it is ridiculous to wait so long before making the information public, and counter productive when it comes to stamping out corruption

You still need to identify examples of alleged actual corruption caused by this. If you can't then you are simply complaining about a problem that doesnt actually exist in significant measure.

Do you really think those involved in corruption would make it public knowledge? Grin

And you think we should take seriously the alleged corruption that is not known about? How about we legislate to ban the slave trade in Australia instead. That isnt public knowledge either, Bambi.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Time to overhaul political donations Reply #207 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 1:43pm mariacostel wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 10:42am: And you think we should take seriously the alleged corruption that is not known about? not known about? how long are you going to keep pretending ICAC didn't catch 13 libs?
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Bam

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #208 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 2:06pm

mariacostel wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 10:42am:

Bam wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 7:13pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 6:12pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 5:12pm:

You can make large donations without declaring them

In Australia parties and donors only need to declare donations above $12,800. That means any money below this amount is private.

And $12,800 is just the beginning for those looking to splash some cash around and avoid public scrutiny.

That declaration limit only applies for donations to a single branch or arm of the organisation. Donate $12,799 to the federal Liberal Party (or Labor Party if that's your preference), and then another to their Victorian brethren and you're under no obligation to declare it.

With the major parties having a branch in each state, as well as a federal arm, this opens the door for private donations on a much larger scale.

However, it should be noted that Labor and the Greens voluntarily declare any donations above $1,000

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-01/here's-what-the-latest-political-donations...

they should at the very least make donations public information IMMEDIATELY ... it is ridiculous to wait so long before making the information public, and counter productive when it comes to stamping out corruption

You still need to identify examples of alleged actual corruption caused by this. If you can't then you are simply complaining about a problem that doesnt actually exist in significant measure.

Do you really think those involved in corruption would make it public knowledge? Grin

And you think we should take seriously the alleged corruption that is not known about?

It's only "not known about" because we have no formal processes in place to uncover it.

We need a Federal ICAC.

Evidently, you would prefer that corruption continue unimpeded simply because it's "not known about". You're definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed on policy.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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mariacostel

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #209 - Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 3:11pm

Bam wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 2:06pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2016 at 10:42am:

Bam wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 7:13pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 6:12pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 5:12pm:

You can make large donations without declaring them

In Australia parties and donors only need to declare donations above $12,800. That means any money below this amount is private.

And $12,800 is just the beginning for those looking to splash some cash around and avoid public scrutiny.

That declaration limit only applies for donations to a single branch or arm of the organisation. Donate $12,799 to the federal Liberal Party (or Labor Party if that's your preference), and then another to their Victorian brethren and you're under no obligation to declare it.

With the major parties having a branch in each state, as well as a federal arm, this opens the door for private donations on a much larger scale.

However, it should be noted that Labor and the Greens voluntarily declare any donations above $1,000

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-01/here's-what-the-latest-political-donations...

they should at the very least make donations public information IMMEDIATELY ... it is ridiculous to wait so long before making the information public, and counter productive when it comes to stamping out corruption

You still need to identify examples of alleged actual corruption caused by this. If you can't then you are simply complaining about a problem that doesnt actually exist in significant measure.

Do you really think those involved in corruption would make it public knowledge? Grin

And you think we should take seriously the alleged corruption that is not known about?

It's only "not known about" because we have no formal processes in place to uncover it.

We need a Federal ICAC.

Evidently, you would prefer that corruption continue unimpeded simply because it's "not known about". You're definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed on policy.

The point is that you cannot credibily complain about corruption due to election donations without credible evidence to support it.

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