Australian Politics Forum - Time to overhaul political donations

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #180 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 2:39pm

Name address, occupation and employer. Even that has wide holes in it - a slim customer seeking to offer a bribe donation to - say - the South Sydney Forum..... need only give it to a mate and say - "Hey, Joe (where ya goin' with that gun in yer hand?) - you drop down and make a donation and mum's the word - I never gave you a cent, right?"

Now - where Joe Bloggs the part-time hash slinger got $1.5m to fling at the Cadlathumpian Party is nobody's business..... is it?

Point is - cost of enforcement is high - has to be balanced out against the values derived.

Have you seen a shady move by someone offering a donation to a political party? Ever wondered how that person got so much cash in one place... and what they could possibly get out of donating three year's gross income to a party that is about to cut his salary and increase his taxes? Got suspicions? Call the Donor Hotline! (an adjunct of the Department of Human Services via Centrelink)

Damn - it injures my sharp-witted, incisive minded soul to see you all miss the subtlety in that comment on metadata.......... what a loss I'll be to you all when I retire and go fishing....

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« Last Edit: Jan 20^th, 2016 at 8:28pm by Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #181 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 2:39pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 2:15pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 11:04am:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 11:00am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:44am:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:25am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:22am:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:20am:

. The laws covering disclosure are also fine as they stand.

bullsh1t .... work around are way to easy ... if it wasn't on all the front pages, who would even know what the 'North Sydney Forum' is apart from those that have been a party to it?

"disclosure" isnt about telling you everything you need to know. It lists WHO. If you are even remotely interested, you can find out the rest of the details yourself. Surely that is obvious.

"disclosure" isnt about telling you everything you need to know.

Full disclosure is meant to be - otherwise it is pointless, incomplete disclosure only means leaving loop holes that can be abused.

Full disclosure gives you the name and address of the donor. If you need more than that then you don't deserve the information. What else do you need? You complain endlessly about metadata (fairly too) and then on the same principle, you demand the exact opposite.

You made the claim that it wasn't giving you all you need to know, now you infer that the name and address is all you need to know.

If you are saying that the disclosure is giving you all you need to know than I am happy with it. If you stand by your first statement I would suggest a call to Huston.

You must have picked up a case of pedantry from peccahead. What was mean was rather obviously that 'disclosure' isnt about giving you all the details you think you might want or have a right to know. It is about given name and address and who it went to. If you want more information than that then you will have to search for it - like everyone else.

the disclosure laws were designed so that the public could rest assured that when someone donated money to a politician or their party, it was done so openly and fairly. Hiding donations behind obscure names deliberately designed to hide the fact that they are politically affiliated is nothing short of an attempt to circumvent disclosure laws and it's just not good enough. The public shouldn't have to go searching corporate records to find out what 'north sydney forum' or other such name that says NOTHING, really is.

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mariacostel

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #182 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 3:23pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 2:36pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 2:15pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 11:04am:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 11:00am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:44am:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:25am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:22am:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:20am:

. The laws covering disclosure are also fine as they stand.

bullsh1t .... work around are way to easy ... if it wasn't on all the front pages, who would even know what the 'North Sydney Forum' is apart from those that have been a party to it?

"disclosure" isnt about telling you everything you need to know. It lists WHO. If you are even remotely interested, you can find out the rest of the details yourself. Surely that is obvious.

"disclosure" isnt about telling you everything you need to know.

Full disclosure is meant to be - otherwise it is pointless, incomplete disclosure only means leaving loop holes that can be abused.

Full disclosure gives you the name and address of the donor. If you need more than that then you don't deserve the information. What else do you need? You complain endlessly about metadata (fairly too) and then on the same principle, you demand the exact opposite.

You made the claim that it wasn't giving you all you need to know, now you infer that the name and address is all you need to know.

If you are saying that the disclosure is giving you all you need to know than I am happy with it. If you stand by your first statement I would suggest a call to Huston.

You must have picked up a case of pedantry from peccahead. What was mean was rather obviously that 'disclosure' isnt about giving you all the details you think you might want or have a right to know. It is about given name and address and who it went to. If you want more information than that then you will have to search for it - like everyone else.

You made the original statement that disclosure does not tell you what you need to know. Considering the dominant conservative position of covering up the required knowledge it is hardly pedantry to take your statement at face value.

I believed that you would try to support the position that you originally stated. I would not have been surprised had you meant what you had said.

You must be an avid supporter of the metadata collection. it is the only think that makes sense given your demand that the election donations include everyone name address, medibank number, bank details, employment and criminal history.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Time to overhaul political donations Reply #183 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 3:25pm mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 3:23pm: You must be an avid supporter of the metadata collection. what has metadata got to do with political corruption? And since you bought up the subject, why does Greyhounds Victoria need matadata?
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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #184 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 3:27pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 3:23pm:

it is the only think that makes sense given your demand that the election donations include everyone name address, medibank number, bank details, employment and criminal history.

and this is where Maria goes into hysterics to try and throw everyone off the scent .... no need to list all that stuff, simply put 'ALP, LNP, NAT etc' alongside the persons or corporations name that is receiving the donation. Nice and easy and makes things very transparent.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: Time to overhaul political donations Reply #185 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 6:13pm mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 2:15pm: You must have picked up a case of pedantry from peccahead. Pedantry is the last accusation of the terminally incorrect.
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Dnarever

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #186 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 8:29pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 3:25pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 3:23pm:

You must be an avid supporter of the metadata collection.

what has metadata got to do with political corruption?

And since you bought up the subject, why does Greyhounds Victoria need matadata?

Looks like meta data will only be used against terrorists ??

One of the best jokes of 2015.

Who knows maybe they will all be rejected ?

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Its time

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #187 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 8:38pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 2:39pm:

Name address, occupation and employer. Even that has wide holes in it - a slim customer seeking to offer a bribe donation to - say - the South Sydney Forum..... need only give it to a mate and say - "Hey, Joe (where ya goin' with that gun in yer hand?) - you drop down and make a donation and mum's the word - I never gave you a cent, right?"

Now - where Joe Bloggs the part-time hash slinger got $1.5m to fling at the Cadlathumpian Party is nobody's business..... is it?

Point is - cost of enforcement is high - has to be balanced out against the values derived.

Have you seen a shady move by someone offering a donation to a political party? Ever wondered how that person got so much cash in one place... and what they could possibly get out of donating three year's gross income to a party that is about to cut his salary and increase his taxes? Got suspicions? Call the Donor Hotline! (an adjunct of the Department of Human Services via Centrelink)

Damn - it injures my sharp-witted, incisive minded soul to see you all miss the subtlety in that comment on metadata.......... what a loss I'll be to you all when I retire and go fishing....

Working beautifully as always grap Wink

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Its time

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #188 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 8:40pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 8:29pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 3:25pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 3:23pm:

You must be an avid supporter of the metadata collection.

what has metadata got to do with political corruption?

And since you bought up the subject, why does Greyhounds Victoria need matadata?

Looks like meta data will only be used against terrorists ??

One of the best jokes of 2015.

Who knows maybe they will all be rejected ?

Certainly could've got some good mileage out of it if the dopey twits at Labor weren't complicit .

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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #189 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 8:42pm

Its time wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 8:40pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 8:29pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 3:25pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 3:23pm:

You must be an avid supporter of the metadata collection.

what has metadata got to do with political corruption?

And since you bought up the subject, why does Greyhounds Victoria need matadata?

Looks like meta data will only be used against terrorists ??

One of the best jokes of 2015.

Who knows maybe they will all be rejected ?

Certainly could've got some good mileage out of it if the dopey twits at Labor weren't complicit .

a bad move by labor

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #190 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:01pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 2:39pm:

Name address, occupation and employer. Even that has wide holes in it - a slim customer seeking to offer a bribe donation to - say - the South Sydney Forum..... need only give it to a mate and say - "Hey, Joe (where ya goin' with that gun in yer hand?) - you drop down and make a donation and mum's the word - I never gave you a cent, right?"

Now - where Joe Bloggs the part-time hash slinger got $1.5m to fling at the Cadlathumpian Party is nobody's business..... is it?

Point is - cost of enforcement is high - has to be balanced out against the values derived.

Have you seen a shady move by someone offering a donation to a political party? Ever wondered how that person got so much cash in one place... and what they could possibly get out of donating three year's gross income to a party that is about to cut his salary and increase his taxes? Got suspicions? Call the Donor Hotline! (an adjunct of the Department of Human Services via Centrelink)

Damn - it injures my sharp-witted, incisive minded soul to see you all miss the subtlety in that comment on metadata.......... what a loss I'll be to you all when I retire and go fishing....

Back to top

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Posts: 89886
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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #191 - Jan 20^th, 2016 at 10:02pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 8:42pm:

Its time wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 8:40pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 8:29pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 3:25pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 3:23pm:

You must be an avid supporter of the metadata collection.

what has metadata got to do with political corruption?

And since you bought up the subject, why does Greyhounds Victoria need matadata?

Looks like meta data will only be used against terrorists ??

One of the best jokes of 2015.

Who knows maybe they will all be rejected ?

Certainly could've got some good mileage out of it if the dopey twits at Labor weren't complicit .

a bad move by labor

A bad move by every jumped-up politician twerp who imagines that government permits him/her to impose on everyone else like some petty Fascist/Stalinist.

It doesn't work that way here......

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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mariacostel Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7344 Sydney Gender:	Re: Time to overhaul political donations Reply #192 - Jan 21^st, 2016 at 4:54pm Bam wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 6:13pm: mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 2:15pm: You must have picked up a case of pedantry from peccahead. Pedantry is the last accusation of the terminally incorrect. Well that's original at least. Stupid, but original.
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John Smith

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #193 - Jan 21^st, 2016 at 7:01pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 21^st, 2016 at 4:54pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 6:13pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 2:15pm:

You must have picked up a case of pedantry from peccahead.

Pedantry is the last accusation of the terminally incorrect.

Well that's original at least. Stupid, but original.

he's probably catering to his audience

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Dnarever

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Re: Time to overhaul political donations
Reply #194 - Jan 21^st, 2016 at 7:21pm

Its time wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 8:40pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 8:29pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 3:25pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 20^th, 2016 at 3:23pm:

You must be an avid supporter of the metadata collection.

what has metadata got to do with political corruption?

And since you bought up the subject, why does Greyhounds Victoria need matadata?

Looks like meta data will only be used against terrorists ??

One of the best jokes of 2015.

Who knows maybe they will all be rejected ?

Certainly could've got some good mileage out of it if the dopey twits at Labor weren't complicit .

When they all need to be criticised that is what should happen.

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