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Lockout laws have killed business in Sydney (Read 2032 times)
Bobby.
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Re: Lockout laws have killed business in Sydney
Reply #30 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:18pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 10:48am:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 10:39am:
Frankly IMHO anyone who NEEDS to drink alcohol everyday after work is a sad case, but thats just it Greg it's my opinion.



I agree with you, and I clearly stated that nobody is talking about "needs to" (in my previous post).

So, let's just put that to one side, because we are on the same page: nobody "needs to" drink.

Now, you said:

"Anyone who needs to go to the pub at 12.30am on a Wednesday night needs to actually ask some questions of themselves."

Firstly, what questions do they need to ask of themselves?

Secondly, how are they any different to the people who go to a pub after 5pm - why should they be denied the chance to socialise at a pub after work?

And finally, do the people who go to the pub after 5pm need to ask questions of themselves too?



Dear Greggy,
I saw a show on TV a while back about Kings Cross.

It was not pretty -
violence, drug taking, people vomiting in gutters, muggings , bashings,
bogans everywhere, sex on public streets
between prostitutes & clients -
even poofters sodomising each others butt holes.

It's time the pubs were closed at 10pm.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Lockout laws have killed business in Sydney
Reply #31 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:27pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:18pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 10:48am:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 10:39am:
Frankly IMHO anyone who NEEDS to drink alcohol everyday after work is a sad case, but thats just it Greg it's my opinion.



I agree with you, and I clearly stated that nobody is talking about "needs to" (in my previous post).

So, let's just put that to one side, because we are on the same page: nobody "needs to" drink.

Now, you said:

"Anyone who needs to go to the pub at 12.30am on a Wednesday night needs to actually ask some questions of themselves."

Firstly, what questions do they need to ask of themselves?

Secondly, how are they any different to the people who go to a pub after 5pm - why should they be denied the chance to socialise at a pub after work?

And finally, do the people who go to the pub after 5pm need to ask questions of themselves too?



Dear Greggy,
I saw a show on TV a while back about Kings Cross.

It was not pretty -
violence, drug taking, people vomiting in gutters, muggings , bashings, bogans everywhere, sex on public streets
between prostitutes & clients -
even poofters sodomising each others butt holes.



You sure it wasn't a family reunion at Captain Spaulding's house?



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Bobby.
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Re: Lockout laws have killed business in Sydney
Reply #32 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:30pm
 
It was Kings Cross & even children had looked out their windows at night

awoken by the noise to see depraved  acts on the streets below them.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Lockout laws have killed business in Sydney
Reply #33 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:32pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:30pm:
It was Kings Cross & even children had looked out their windows at night

awoken by the noise to see depraved  acts on the streets below them.


It's more to do with drugs than alcohol, Booby.

You could close all the bars in the Cross, and you'd still have the same problems.

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Bobby.
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Re: Lockout laws have killed business in Sydney
Reply #34 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:34pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:32pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:30pm:
It was Kings Cross & even children had looked out their windows at night

awoken by the noise to see depraved  acts on the streets below them.


It's more to do with drugs than alcohol, sir Bobby.

You could close all the bars in the Cross, and you'd still have the same problems.




It reminds me of Sodom and Gomorrah.
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Lockout laws have killed business in Sydney
Reply #35 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:37pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 10:29am:
As I said in my 1st post if Australians could actually drink responsibly we wouldn't need these laws.



These laws came in because people were killed with one punch in the streets, none of the victims were killed in any of these venues that have had to close early because of these attacks.

The people in the clubs are drinking responsibly in places that are covered by responsible service of alcohol legislation, the attackers had nothing to do with any of these places that are now locked up they attacked their victims in the street.

The problem is street violence it has nothing to do with the clubs these idiotic laws target, why are we punishing business owners who had nothing to do with this violence?

I think I will order some of those "Nanny State" number plate holders it tells us what we have become.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Lockout laws have killed business in Sydney
Reply #36 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:38pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:34pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:32pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:30pm:
It was Kings Cross & even children had looked out their windows at night

awoken by the noise to see depraved  acts on the streets below them.


It's more to do with drugs than alcohol, sir Bobby.

You could close all the bars in the Cross, and you'd still have the same problems.




It reminds me of Sodom and Gomorrah.



Sounds like just another Saturday night in Northbridge.

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Bobby.
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Re: Lockout laws have killed business in Sydney
Reply #37 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:40pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:38pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:34pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:32pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:30pm:
It was Kings Cross & even children had looked out their windows at night

awoken by the noise to see depraved  acts on the streets below them.


It's more to do with drugs than alcohol, sir Bobby.

You could close all the bars in the Cross, and you'd still have the same problems.




It reminds me of Sodom and Gomorrah.



Sounds like just another Saturday night in Northbridge.




Greggy - you'd love Kings Cross -

you wouldn't be able to sit down for a week after going there.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Lockout laws have killed business in Sydney
Reply #38 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:42pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:40pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:38pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:34pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:32pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:30pm:
It was Kings Cross & even children had looked out their windows at night

awoken by the noise to see depraved  acts on the streets below them.


It's more to do with drugs than alcohol, sir Bobby.

You could close all the bars in the Cross, and you'd still have the same problems.




It reminds me of Sodom and Gomorrah.



Sounds like just another Saturday night in Northbridge.




Greggy - you'd love Kings Cross -

you wouldn't be able to sit down for a week after going there.



Have they taken away the chairs?

I'm from Sydney, Booby, and I hate the Cross.

I avoid it at all costs.

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gizmo_2655
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Re: Lockout laws have killed business in Sydney
Reply #39 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:44pm
 
Kiron22 wrote on Jan 13th, 2016 at 4:31pm:
If the problem is simply being spread further afield, can it really be claimed the laws have reduced violence, or have they simply pushed it out of the media spotlight?

Hospital admissions and violence rates have decreased in the regions that the laws have been applied to, but critics say that’s simply because there are less people there. City of Sydney data recorded footpath congestion as being down 84% in some areas since the laws were introduced.

And while violence has been at the centre of the debate, critics say the laws have also killed venues that rely on the late-night music scene.

“There was a feeling that the laws were hastily ushered in without any thought given to how they would affect the music scene and the cultural vibrancy of the city. Flash forward two years later and we’ve seen venues close their doors, hundreds of jobs lost, and with very questionable results on the rate of assaults,” said Koh.

These venues include Hugo’s Lounge (voted best nightclub in Australia six times), The Flinders Bar, Q Bar, Trademark Hotel and Soho; iconic destinations that once relied upon late night trading. Businesses are reporting profit losses of up to 40%, demonstrating the crippling effect of the laws on establishments once viewed as the beating heart of Sydney.

“Those lockout laws just killed us. We’re looking for compensation for a bad policy,” the manager of iconic bar The Flinders told Fairfax when shutting his doors for the final time.

And it’s not just venue owners who are losing profit; DJs and musicians can’t find work, and support industries such as convenience stores and kebab shops are struggling to remain open as their prime customers venture elsewhere.

A lesson in how to handle - and not handle - alcohol-fuelled violence may be learned from Victoria. In 2008, then Victorian-premier John Brumby introduced lockout laws following the state’s own spate of violent incidents. The three-month trial, which included 2am lockouts, was not continued and a KPMG report found an increase in late-night assaults.

“There appears to be a culture within the Victorian government to encourage and protect their music scene. Sadly this vision is something the NSW government lacks,” Loch says.

The businesses are fighting, but it’s a battle that gets more difficult as time passes.

A statutory review into the laws will be held in early 2016. Loch believes it’s up to Sydney’s voters to push for change.

“You have to fight for this, because having the odd whinge is not good enough,” he said. “There’s been talk about the people of Sydney taking this lying down, and it’s true.”

“Most people work hard and want to relax on the weekend. Whether that involves dinner, wine or Jager bombs. People who want to have a good time shouldn’t be penalised for it, and they shouldn’t be penalised for the misbehaviour of a few nice people,” Loch said.

For Koh, the message is simple. No amount of regulation or restriction will take away people’s desire to have fun.

“People want to go out late, that will not change, and they’ll do it one way or another. Prohibition never works.

NSW Police Minister Troy Grant did not respond to request for comment.

- Chris Sutton



And he's wrong..the only thing 'lock-out laws' do is reduce alcohol fueled violence, by limiting the number of pubs/clubs that drunken idiots can visit in one session.
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Dsmithy70
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Re: Lockout laws have killed business in Sydney
Reply #40 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:55pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:37pm:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 10:29am:
As I said in my 1st post if Australians could actually drink responsibly we wouldn't need these laws.



These laws came in because people were killed with one punch in the streets, none of the victims were killed in any of these venues that have had to close early because of these attacks.

The people in the clubs are drinking responsibly in places that are covered by responsible service of alcohol legislation, the attackers had nothing to do with any of these places that are now locked up they attacked their victims in the street.

The problem is street violence it has nothing to do with the clubs these idiotic laws target, why are we punishing business owners who had nothing to do with this violence?

I think I will order some of those "Nanny State" number plate holders it tells us what we have become.



I would agree in just about every other circumstance, however having travelled extensively I am yet to set an out of control local, spewing in the street or picking fights.
Something I see regularly in Newcastle & Sydney.

The extent of control & influence the alcohol & gaming industry has over our society is ridiculous, so again IMHO anything that reduces it is a good thing.
F34K em
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REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Lockout laws have killed business in Sydney
Reply #41 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 2:01pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:55pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:37pm:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 10:29am:
As I said in my 1st post if Australians could actually drink responsibly we wouldn't need these laws.



These laws came in because people were killed with one punch in the streets, none of the victims were killed in any of these venues that have had to close early because of these attacks.

The people in the clubs are drinking responsibly in places that are covered by responsible service of alcohol legislation, the attackers had nothing to do with any of these places that are now locked up they attacked their victims in the street.

The problem is street violence it has nothing to do with the clubs these idiotic laws target, why are we punishing business owners who had nothing to do with this violence?

I think I will order some of those "Nanny State" number plate holders it tells us what we have become.



I would agree in just about every other circumstance, however having travelled extensively I am yet to set an out of control local, spewing in the street or picking fights.
Something I see regularly in Newcastle & Sydney.

The extent of control & influence the alcohol & gaming industry has over our society is ridiculous, so again IMHO anything that reduces it is a good thing.
F34K em


Why should club owners be blamed for what happens in the street , the club bouncers cannot do anything with people in public places that responsibility rests with the Police.

The lockout laws came because of violence in the streets it had nothing to do with people spewing in the street, RSA laws cast doubt on clubs/pubs being responsible for these people not handling their drinks.

Typcial lefty, you don't like it so instead of just avoiding it you want to ban things.
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Re: Lockout laws have killed business in Sydney
Reply #42 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 2:33pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 2:01pm:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:55pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 1:37pm:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 14th, 2016 at 10:29am:
As I said in my 1st post if Australians could actually drink responsibly we wouldn't need these laws.



These laws came in because people were killed with one punch in the streets, none of the victims were killed in any of these venues that have had to close early because of these attacks.

The people in the clubs are drinking responsibly in places that are covered by responsible service of alcohol legislation, the attackers had nothing to do with any of these places that are now locked up they attacked their victims in the street.

The problem is street violence it has nothing to do with the clubs these idiotic laws target, why are we punishing business owners who had nothing to do with this violence?

I think I will order some of those "Nanny State" number plate holders it tells us what we have become.



I would agree in just about every other circumstance, however having travelled extensively I am yet to set an out of control local, spewing in the street or picking fights.
Something I see regularly in Newcastle & Sydney.

The extent of control & influence the alcohol & gaming industry has over our society is ridiculous, so again IMHO anything that reduces it is a good thing.
F34K em


Why should club owners be blamed for what happens in the street , the club bouncers cannot do anything with people in public places that responsibility rests with the Police.

The lockout laws came because of violence in the streets it had nothing to do with people spewing in the street, RSA laws cast doubt on clubs/pubs being responsible for these people not handling their drinks.

Typcial lefty, you don't like it so instead of just avoiding it you want to ban things.


Typical righty

Instead of addressing a problem you want more cops & rules then cry nanny state.

Avoiding it, why should I have to avoid a night out because of fear of assault?
Imagine your outcry of nanny state if publican's actually did enforce RSA.

You've got no idea what you're talking about, pub & club owners are not going broke , if you want to drink until 4am you still can(thanks to the turning of blind eyes to RSA) you just can't jump from venue to venue.

And if your a dickhead in 1 after 12am or what ever it is then you can't go be a dickhead elsewhere.
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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innocentbystander.
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Re: Lockout laws have killed business in Sydney
Reply #43 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 2:56pm
 
Lockout laws work, and thats why we should apply them to immigration.  Smiley
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Bobby.
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Re: Lockout laws have killed business in Sydney
Reply #44 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 8:58pm
 
innocentbystander. wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 2:56pm:
Lockout laws work, and thats why we should apply them to immigration.  Smiley



Close the pubs at 10pm.
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