Australian Politics Forum - Rogue union bosses targeted

Dnarever

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Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #45 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 12:46pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 11:05am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 10:59am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 10:53am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 10:44am:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 10:25am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 10:21am:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 10:18am:

... you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up

Please enlighten us all.

Good on you peck

Companies are regulated by ASIC through the Corporations Act i.e. it's business related

Unions are regulated by Fair Work Australia i.e. it's about providing support and advice to employees and employers about rights and obligations. It's done through the Fair Work Act

This is why the Royal Commission recommend the Fair Work Act reflect some of the definitions found in the Corporations Act

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/website-information/related-sites/unions-and-employe...

So it seems then that Fair work Australia is the problem... that's what happens when you have any socialist venture via government and quasi-government control....... Adolph and Jozip knew that well....

What we are discussing here is equal treatment under Law for those who do the same things... and it is not the province of government to create a different set of laws for one group... Adolph etc did that.....

One reason why the Liberals wanted to reestablish the ABCC, but the union-ruled ALP won't have a bar of it because they'd then be stopped from being thugs and behaving corruptly.

Or maybe because it is an unfair unreasonable disaster that lead to increased industry injuries and deaths while putting one area of employees under laws and regulations that should never be acceptable in democratic western society.

If only you had some actual figures to back-up that ludicrous and false claim. Such a pity that you do not.

Last time I was questioned on this I produced the numbers, do you guys take turns pretending you don't know anything ?

If you want to find out look it up.

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Kat Gold Member Offline Socialism IS the answer. Posts: 17709 Everywhere and no-where Gender:	Re: Rogue union bosses targeted Reply #46 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 2:10pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 10:04am: Rogue union bosses not targeted Fixed for ya....... Why is it, do you think, that only UNION bosses are targeted, unless this is an ideological war . It is. And the neo-cons CANNOT be permitted to win.
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mariacostel

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Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #47 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 6:14pm

Kat wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 2:10pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 10:04am:

Rogue union bosses not targeted

Fixed for ya.......

Why is it, do you think, that only UNION bosses are targeted,

unless this is an ideological war

.

It is.

And the neo-cons CANNOT be permitted to win.

Do you treat everything in your life like a war? Perhaps if you stopped doing that your life would look less like a carpet-bombed disaster.

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Maqqa

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Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #48 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 7:15pm

When pecker asked to be enlightened I thought there was hope - but the left continues to spread misinformation

Fair Work Act 2009
Was established by Rudd in 2009. Prior to this it was called Workplace Relations Act 1996 - established by Howard. This Act allows the establishment/registration of Unions to give advice to employers and employees about their rights

Corporations Act 2000
Allows the establishment of a Company. Outlines the responsibilities of its OFFICERS i.e. people representing the company. Outlines rules it can't break and penalties

Unions
They registered their Union. But they extended their activities beyond just giving advice. They run it like a business i.e. it has OFFICERS. So when the OFFICERS broke rules relating to a company there are no penalties

Royal Commission
Recognised the gap mentioned above and recommend "beefing up the Fair Work Act" to look more like the Corporations Act

Why did it take so long?
Because the ALP have always said any changes is an attack members. But we now know it's the union bosses that was ripping off the members and not the LIBs

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #49 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 7:19pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 6:14pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 2:10pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 10:04am:

Rogue union bosses not targeted

Fixed for ya.......

Why is it, do you think, that only UNION bosses are targeted,

unless this is an ideological war

.

It is.

And the neo-cons CANNOT be permitted to win.

Do you treat everything in your life like a war? Perhaps if you stopped doing that your life would look less like a carpet-bombed disaster.

The real war has yet to come... choose your side carefully... and you are already lagging behind...

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« Last Edit: Jan 11^th, 2016 at 7:26pm by Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #50 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 7:24pm

So the Fair Work Act and the Fair Work Commission are one and the same? Really?

I thought such a commission was a fair place to drop a few of your mates in need of a few bucks..... as long as they followed the Party line....

Again - how does regulation equate to Law? I know - but let me hear you explain it so I know you understand.

Around 70% of government is done by regulation and departmental policy - be very wary of such things.... this is precisely why I advocate that any regulation or departmental policy must abide fully by the Rule of Law, and must be challengable by a simple and cheap process.... rather than a convoluted and massively costly law suit in some court (such a process is itself policy!!)...

Pull, Lemuel..... PULL!

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 150369 Gender:	Re: Rogue union bosses targeted Reply #51 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 7:29pm Maqqa wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 7:15pm: When pecker asked to be enlightened I thought there was hope - but the left continues to spread misinformation What 'misinformation' are you referring to?
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Dnarever

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Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #52 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 7:40pm

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 7:15pm:

When pecker asked to be enlightened I thought there was hope - but the left continues to spread misinformation

Fair Work Act 2009
Was established by Rudd in 2009. Prior to this it was called Workplace Relations Act 1996 - established by Howard. This Act allows the establishment/registration of Unions to give advice to employers and employees about their rights

Corporations Act 2000
Allows the establishment of a Company. Outlines the responsibilities of its OFFICERS i.e. people representing the company. Outlines rules it can't break and penalties

Unions
They registered their Union. But they extended their activities beyond just giving advice. They run it like a business i.e. it has OFFICERS. So when the OFFICERS broke rules relating to a company there are no penalties

Royal Commission
Recognised the gap mentioned above and recommend "beefing up the Fair Work Act" to look more like the Corporations Act

Why did it take so long?
Because the ALP have always said any changes is an attack members. But we now know it's the union bosses that was ripping off the members and not the LIBs

it has OFFICERS. So when the OFFICERS broke rules relating to a company there are no penalties

Sorry but it's not true. there are very significant penalties.

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Dnarever

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Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #53 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 7:45pm

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 7:15pm:

When pecker asked to be enlightened I thought there was hope - but the left continues to spread misinformation

Fair Work Act 2009
Was established by Rudd in 2009. Prior to this it was called Workplace Relations Act 1996 - established by Howard. This Act allows the establishment/registration of Unions to give advice to employers and employees about their rights

Corporations Act 2000
Allows the establishment of a Company. Outlines the responsibilities of its OFFICERS i.e. people representing the company. Outlines rules it can't break and penalties

Unions
They registered their Union. But they extended their activities beyond just giving advice. They run it like a business i.e. it has OFFICERS. So when the OFFICERS broke rules relating to a company there are no penalties

Royal Commission
Recognised the gap mentioned above and recommend "beefing up the Fair Work Act" to look more like the Corporations Act

Why did it take so long?
Because the ALP have always said any changes is an attack members. But we now know it's the union bosses that was ripping off the members and not the LIBs

Fair Work Act 2009
Was established by Rudd in 2009. Prior to this it was called Workplace Relations Act 1996 - established by Howard. This Act allows the establishment/registration of Unions to give advice to employers and employees about their rights

Wrong.

The role of unions

Unions play an important role in the workplace.

Some of the key roles include being able to resolve workplace issues by being a voice for employees and acting as a bargaining representative during bargaining negotiations.

Other key features of unions include:
•working with management to help resolve workplace issues
•being an advocate for employees
•ensuring employers are meeting their minimum obligations
•looking into suspected breaches of:
•workplace laws
•discrimination laws
•workplace safety laws.

Bargaining with unions

Bargaining is a process where employers and employees negotiate the terms and conditions of an enterprise agreement.

Employers and employees can be represented by a bargaining representative during this process. Normally the bargaining representative for employees will be a union official.

All bargaining representatives and other parties involved in the process have to bargain in good faith.

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/employee-entitlements/industrial-action-and-union-me...

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #54 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 8:02pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 7:40pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 7:15pm:

When pecker asked to be enlightened I thought there was hope - but the left continues to spread misinformation

Fair Work Act 2009
Was established by Rudd in 2009. Prior to this it was called Workplace Relations Act 1996 - established by Howard. This Act allows the establishment/registration of Unions to give advice to employers and employees about their rights

Corporations Act 2000
Allows the establishment of a Company. Outlines the responsibilities of its OFFICERS i.e. people representing the company. Outlines rules it can't break and penalties

Unions
They registered their Union. But they extended their activities beyond just giving advice. They run it like a business i.e. it has OFFICERS. So when the OFFICERS broke rules relating to a company there are no penalties

Royal Commission
Recognised the gap mentioned above and recommend "beefing up the Fair Work Act" to look more like the Corporations Act

Why did it take so long?
Because the ALP have always said any changes is an attack members. But we now know it's the union bosses that was ripping off the members and not the LIBs

it has OFFICERS. So when the OFFICERS broke rules relating to a company there are no penalties

Sorry but it's not true. there are very significant penalties.

So you maintain that UNION officers need to be constrained, but not company officers, who, by and large, feast on the loopholes and lack of governance in place over them?

banks.... investment advisors.... self-regulated... any bells ringing yet?

If - as this hype says - Union officers were getting away with things that are genuine crimes - and this does not include placing a black ban according to a vote of members on a business that is engaged in shoddy industrial relations (that's only a 'crime' when you are a business or a support of business even when it does wrong) - how then was Thomo and the like called to task by the Union FIRST and foremost - and long before any 'royal commission'... and then charged according to LAW?

What dream land do you reside in? Any dream land that attacks unions but not bosses who do the wrong thing?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 150369 Gender:	Re: Rogue union bosses targeted Reply #55 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 8:03pm The only person spreading misinformation here, is Maqqa. Funny, that.
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 89862 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: Rogue union bosses targeted Reply #56 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 8:10pm LongMania - an established negotiator - prefers to negotiate at the point of the unemployment gun..... not a good indicator of longevity in this day and age with an increasingly alienated workforce and society.....
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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Rogue union bosses targeted Reply #57 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 9:38pm Dnarever wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 7:40pm: it has OFFICERS. So when the OFFICERS broke rules relating to a company there are no penalties Sorry but it's not true. there are very significant penalties. Please enlighten us with a reference to the Fair Work Act
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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #58 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 9:39pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 8:02pm:

So you maintain that UNION officers need to be constrained, but not company officers, who, by and large, feast on the loopholes and lack of governance in place over them?

banks.... investment advisors.... self-regulated... any bells ringing yet?

Incorrect

The Union Officers are unrestraint compared to the Company Officers

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Rogue union bosses targeted Reply #59 - Jan 11^th, 2016 at 9:40pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11^th, 2016 at 8:03pm: The only person spreading misinformation here, is Maqqa. Funny, that. Then reference the Fair Work Act and prove me wrong
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