Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 
Send Topic Print
Rogue union bosses targeted (Read 3433 times)
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 89848
Proud Old White Australian Man
Gender: male
Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #30 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:10am
 
.. to every thing.. spin, spin, spin.....

"Victorian Liberal MP Dan Tehan said it was time union officials who break the law were held to account"

You mean Thomo got a walk?  Wow... never knew that.,

WTS is it with these people posting this utter garbage that they think somehow people who break laws are not held to account?  Countless innocent people have been held to account for allegations of 'breaking the law' on the word and whim of countless people entrusted with upholding the law.... (a gross miscarriage of justice and breach of Rule of Law BTW)....

When people break the law - they can always be held accountable.... so we need to look further here for the true reasons for this jihad against Unions.

On the politics side - I see that Turnbull has no intention of backing away from Abbott's attack on Unionism, and thus shows that there has been no substantial change in the 'industrial relations' approach of this government.
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 89848
Proud Old White Australian Man
Gender: male
Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #31 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:13am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:39am:
Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 8:27am:
aussie100percent wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:40am:
Bam wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 7:37am:
Unions should not be subject to special governance laws that companies or other organisations are not.

Banning the payment of fines against officials by unions? OK - this isn't allowed for companies.

Preventing people with criminal convictions from holding office in a union? Not OK - directors of companies are not subject to similar laws, and politicians are even allowed to be elected with criminal convictions.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.


So you think it's ok for crooks to run Unions?

No, I do not.

Nor do I think it is OK for criminals to run companies or be elected to parliament. Yet the law currently allows that.

If we ban criminals from holding offices in unions, we must also ban criminals from holding any office of responsibility, including being directors of companies or being elected to Parliament.

The law must be equal for EVERYONE.



thats not true.  BEHAVIOUR must be equal for everyone, but if a particular group is not going to comply without stringent regulation then such things are more than fine.

all unions have to do is to obey the law and not bully or be corrupt.  But they wont do that ergo, special laws to control them,


You mean the Law shouldn't treat all equally?

Tell that to Magna Carta...... the biggest trouble with this country is that Law itself has been perverted to the use of political parties.... yours Libs being the absolute worst.  Perversion of the Law is a crime itself and should be punished as such.

As usual - you are good for a laugh...... Grin  Grin
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Maqqa
Gold Member
*****
Offline


14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000
Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #32 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:18am
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:04am:
Rogue union bosses not targeted


Fixed for ya.......

Why is it, do you think, that only UNION bosses are targeted, unless this is an ideological war.


When you don't expect the leftards to sinker lower - they under achieve all expectations and set even lower standards

To make a statement like this shows you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up

It is the mass stupidity of the left that allows the right to be wealthy
Back to top
 

Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 150311
Gender: male
Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #33 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:21am
 
Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:18am:
... you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up


Please enlighten us all.

Back to top
 

GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles
 
IP Logged
 
Maqqa
Gold Member
*****
Offline


14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000
Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #34 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:25am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:21am:
Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:18am:
... you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up


Please enlighten us all.




Good on you peck


Companies are regulated by ASIC through the Corporations Act i.e. it's business related

Unions are regulated by Fair Work Australia i.e. it's about providing support and advice to employees and employers about rights and obligations. It's done through the Fair Work Act

This is why the Royal Commission recommend the Fair Work Act reflect some of the definitions found in the Corporations Act

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/website-information/related-sites/unions-and-employe...
Back to top
 

Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 89848
Proud Old White Australian Man
Gender: male
Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #35 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:42am
 
Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:18am:
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:04am:
Rogue union bosses not targeted


Fixed for ya.......

Why is it, do you think, that only UNION bosses are targeted, unless this is an ideological war.


When you don't expect the leftards to sinker lower - they under achieve all expectations and set even lower standards

To make a statement like this shows you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up

It is the mass stupidity of the left that allows the right to be wealthy


I rather thought it was the minority greed of the few on the 'right' who take all, while the rest, mere adherents with the fervent and undying hope that they will one day ride at the same level as the master rip-off merchants, are just as poor as the majority of the 'left'.

Adherents of the 'right' are often just peasants hoping to wear Armani one day and imagine themselves coffee shop billionaires.....
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 89848
Proud Old White Australian Man
Gender: male
Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #36 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:44am
 
Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:25am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:21am:
Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:18am:
... you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up


Please enlighten us all.




Good on you peck


Companies are regulated by ASIC through the Corporations Act i.e. it's business related

Unions are regulated by Fair Work Australia i.e. it's about providing support and advice to employees and employers about rights and obligations. It's done through the Fair Work Act

This is why the Royal Commission recommend the Fair Work Act reflect some of the definitions found in the Corporations Act

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/website-information/related-sites/unions-and-employe...


So it seems then that Fair work Australia is the problem... that's what happens when you have any socialist venture via government and quasi-government control....... Adolph and Jozip knew that well....

What we are discussing here is equal treatment under Law for those who do the same things... and it is not the province of government to create a different set of laws for one group... Adolph etc did that.....

Without going too far, I would venture to suggest that there are very few occasions on which the regulations of companies are actually enforced... many such are done by 'peer' group stricture...... the banks being a prime example.

http://asic.gov.au/regulatory-resources/find-a-document/regulatory-guides/
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:53am by Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Armchair_Politician
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 28481
Gender: male
Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #37 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:53am
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:44am:
Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:25am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:21am:
Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:18am:
... you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up


Please enlighten us all.




Good on you peck


Companies are regulated by ASIC through the Corporations Act i.e. it's business related

Unions are regulated by Fair Work Australia i.e. it's about providing support and advice to employees and employers about rights and obligations. It's done through the Fair Work Act

This is why the Royal Commission recommend the Fair Work Act reflect some of the definitions found in the Corporations Act

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/website-information/related-sites/unions-and-employe...


So it seems then that Fair work Australia is the problem... that's what happens when you have any socialist venture via government and quasi-government control....... Adolph and Jozip knew that well....

What we are discussing here is equal treatment under Law for those who do the same things... and it is not the province of government to create a different set of laws for one group... Adolph etc did that.....


One reason why the Liberals wanted to reestablish the ABCC, but the union-ruled ALP won't have a bar of it because they'd then be stopped from being thugs and behaving corruptly.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 89848
Proud Old White Australian Man
Gender: male
Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #38 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:56am
 
So this is all about attacking the building unions, who are alleged to be thugs and criminals?

I'd have to say - in that case - that there is a need to await the outcomes of court proceedings first, and to actually prove that any criminality (including corruption) is systematic and accepted as part and parcel of the job.

Tough negotiation is not criminality.... unless there is a corollary charge of 'weak-kneed boss who gives in easily' ......

All this is about the Flying Grollo Petty Fascist Empire in Malbun and their inability to refrain from trying to browbeat and intimidate their workforce and cut corners in the name of profit ..... as some 'right' inherent to being The Capo... certain ethnic groups imported into this country have this problem to the max - every petty little boss thinks he has dictatorial entitlements...
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Dnarever
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 61245
Here
Gender: male
Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #39 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:59am
 
Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:53am:
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:44am:
Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:25am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:21am:
Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:18am:
... you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up


Please enlighten us all.




Good on you peck


Companies are regulated by ASIC through the Corporations Act i.e. it's business related

Unions are regulated by Fair Work Australia i.e. it's about providing support and advice to employees and employers about rights and obligations. It's done through the Fair Work Act

This is why the Royal Commission recommend the Fair Work Act reflect some of the definitions found in the Corporations Act

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/website-information/related-sites/unions-and-employe...


So it seems then that Fair work Australia is the problem... that's what happens when you have any socialist venture via government and quasi-government control....... Adolph and Jozip knew that well....

What we are discussing here is equal treatment under Law for those who do the same things... and it is not the province of government to create a different set of laws for one group... Adolph etc did that.....


One reason why the Liberals wanted to reestablish the ABCC, but the union-ruled ALP won't have a bar of it because they'd then be stopped from being thugs and behaving corruptly.


Or maybe because it is an unfair unreasonable disaster that lead to increased industry injuries and deaths while putting one area of employees under laws and regulations that should never be acceptable in democratic western society.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Armchair_Politician
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 28481
Gender: male
Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #40 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 11:05am
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:59am:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:53am:
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:44am:
Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:25am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:21am:
Maqqa wrote on Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:18am:
... you don't understand the corporate structure of Unions and how they are set up


Please enlighten us all.




Good on you peck


Companies are regulated by ASIC through the Corporations Act i.e. it's business related

Unions are regulated by Fair Work Australia i.e. it's about providing support and advice to employees and employers about rights and obligations. It's done through the Fair Work Act

This is why the Royal Commission recommend the Fair Work Act reflect some of the definitions found in the Corporations Act

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/website-information/related-sites/unions-and-employe...


So it seems then that Fair work Australia is the problem... that's what happens when you have any socialist venture via government and quasi-government control....... Adolph and Jozip knew that well....

What we are discussing here is equal treatment under Law for those who do the same things... and it is not the province of government to create a different set of laws for one group... Adolph etc did that.....


One reason why the Liberals wanted to reestablish the ABCC, but the union-ruled ALP won't have a bar of it because they'd then be stopped from being thugs and behaving corruptly.


Or maybe because it is an unfair unreasonable disaster that lead to increased industry injuries and deaths while putting one area of employees under laws and regulations that should never be acceptable in democratic western society.


If only you had some actual figures to back-up that ludicrous and false claim. Such a pity that you do not.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 89848
Proud Old White Australian Man
Gender: male
Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #41 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 11:18am
 
Let me abolish this argument here and now.

Unions are REGULATED by FWA - regulations are not Law - -  so this entire discussion is moot, and Turnbull is bullshotting in the wind about 'laws' to control 'rogue unions'.

Now - this is one clear reason why I have perpetually advocated that regulation should be compelled to abide by Law, and be open to challenge for a nominal fee instead of the massive cost of placing an objection before massively expensive courts as the only way of challenging wrongful regulation.

... to every thing.. spin, spin, spin....
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 89848
Proud Old White Australian Man
Gender: male
Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #42 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 11:32am
 
http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/building-watchdog-undermines-liberty-20100705-zx...

"In the heated, protracted battle over the Australian Building and Construction Commission, it can be hard to separate fact from fiction. When I first looked at the law that underpins the commission, I expected many of the strongest attacks to be wildly overstated. I was wrong.

By any standard, the ABCC is a remarkable body. Described as a ''tough cop on the beat'', it has powers that greatly exceed those given to any police officer in the nation.

The ABCC can force people to answer questions in secret and to reveal documents that relate to any of its investigations. This negates a person's right to silence. It also removes their privilege against self-incrimination, a protection that has been described by the High Court as a ''cardinal principle of our system of justice'' and a ''bulwark of liberty''.

Disobeying the ABCC is punishable by six months in jail. This is the penalty facing a South Australian rigger, Ark Tribe, whose trial for failing to attend the commission for questioning continues later this month.

There are no limits on the type of information that can be sought by the ABCC. A person can be compelled to hand over personal phone and email records, reveal memberships of a union or political party, and report on private meetings.

This can be applied to anyone. Workers can be brought in, not because they are suspected of wrongdoing, but to report on the activities of their co-workers. Family members, including young children, can be told to reveal information about a parent in the building industry.

The possibilities are far reaching. The law even means that a priest can be forced to reveal the secrets of the confessional. Such examples are not entirely fanciful. One person who just happened to be passing a building site was reported in this paper to have been ''hauled in for several hours of secret questioning'' after seeing a confrontation between a union official and a building manager.

In case there was any doubt about the scope of these powers, the law says that the ABCC can override the protections that innocent people have under privacy law. The law may well be unique in also allowing the commission to ignore the confidentiality of cabinet documents and to demand secret national security information held by agencies such as ASIO.

The problem is not just one of extraordinary power, but also that the expected safeguards have been stripped away. Unlike other bodies that question people, the ABCC does not need a warrant from a judicial officer or other independent person. The normal grounds of reviewing its decisions have also been excluded, meaning federal law cannot be used to argue that the ABCC has breached the rules of natural justice or made a decision in bad faith.

What is most surprising is this unchecked authority is not directed at serious crime. The ABCC's mandate is instead to investigate industrial matters in the construction industry. This means it can use its coercive powers to inquire into minor breaches of industrial awards, including the proper taking of sick leave and rest breaks.

Despite its limited role, the ABCC has been given powers that would not be contemplated for the police by a state government bent on winning a law and order auction. This should be a concern to everyone, not just people working in the building industry. A dangerous precedent has been set that could well be applied elsewhere.

The ABCC was created by the Howard government after the Cole Royal Commission into the Building and Construction Industry reported in 2003 that it had found examples of ''lawlessness''. This finding is disputed by the union movement. However, even if it is correct, the powers given to the ABCC represent an overkill.

Labor vehemently opposed the creation of the commission. It has since changed its approach. In government, Labor has sought to put new restraints on the body, but has made no move to abolish the powers of the ABCC or to ensure that all workers are subject to the same laws.

Kevin Rudd was steadfast in holding to this position. He did so despite calls from across his own party and the union movement that the ABCC be dismantled. Julia Gillard is now facing renewed pressure, including from her backbench and some of her most prominent union supporters. They are asking her to go to the next federal election seeking a mandate to abolish the ABCC and its powers.

The Prime Minister should do so. The ABCC has no place in a modern, fair system of industrial relations, let alone in a nation that prides itself on political and individual freedoms.

George Williams is the Anthony Mason Professor of Law at the University of NSW"
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 89848
Proud Old White Australian Man
Gender: male
Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #43 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 11:33am
 
I doubt we need the return of such a blatantly Fascist organisation that is part and parcel of the ongoing jihad against Rights here in Australia...

Those who persist on this path will one day rue the day they began it... history says so.
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 89848
Proud Old White Australian Man
Gender: male
Re: Rogue union bosses targeted
Reply #44 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 12:09pm
 
Damn - that settled the battle...... or is it lunch time?

I'm sure LongMania could argue here... anyone can argue anything... thing is............... can they argue reality?
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 
Send Topic Print