Australian Politics Forum - Merkel & the refugees

sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Merkel & the refugees
Reply #570 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:02am

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:55am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:48am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:40am:

im on record. i believe in increasing refugee intake. Ive been upfront about this. you need to take a chill pill. Calm down, stop the wrist flapping and take a few deep breaths.

the refugee intake is for permament resettlement - which is a voluntary programme. You do understand there is no actual limit to how many refugees we take up, right?

i have no issue with taking as many refugees as we can handle. under some conditions. if we take refugees into this country we have a responsibility to make sure they have the resources available to become productive citizens. This is our responsibility. Dont take them if we arent willing to make the resources available.

Of course. No disagreement.

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mothra

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Re: Merkel & the refugees
Reply #571 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:03am

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:58am:

mothra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:48am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:41am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:37am:

[quote author=mothra link=1452140756/560#560 date=1453731904]Awwww. Poor bloody dog.

Tell me about it, his owners are criminals.

humans are more important than animals. Damn, theres that moral compass again.

In what context? We're not more important in many of them.[/quoteAt its most basic, Im a human, my species is more important.

We're not more important for biodiversity.

Just one example.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Merkel & the refugees
Reply #572 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:04am

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:58am:

mothra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:48am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:41am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:37am:

[quote author=mothra link=1452140756/560#560 date=1453731904]Awwww. Poor bloody dog.

Tell me about it, his owners are criminals.

humans are more important than animals. Damn, theres that moral compass again.

In what context? We're not more important in many of them.[/quoteAt its most basic, Im a human, my species is more important.

Perhaps when we look at it from a starving person vs starving dog who do we prioritise food for. But when a human takes on the responsibility of looking after a dog, or a cat, or any domesticated animal, it is their job to make sure they do it appropriately. A fat dog isn't cute. It's cruel. And that person has failed in their responsibility, making a living creature suffer. There needs to be repercussion. In your eyes a human being more important does not mean they shouldn't be held accountable for their actions.

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ian

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Re: Merkel & the refugees
Reply #573 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:06am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:02am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:55am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:48am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:40am:

im on record. i believe in increasing refugee intake. Ive been upfront about this. you need to take a chill pill. Calm down, stop the wrist flapping and take a few deep breaths.

the refugee intake is for permament resettlement - which is a voluntary programme. You do understand there is no actual limit to how many refugees we take up, right?

i have no issue with taking as many refugees as we can handle. under some conditions. if we take refugees into this country we have a responsibility to make sure they have the resources available to become productive citizens. This is our responsibility. Dont take them if we arent willing to make the resources available.

Of course. No disagreement.

this is the issue i have, we are bringing in refugees and abandoning them. many are coming from war zones, prone to violence and PTSD. we are not recognising this.

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mothra

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Re: Merkel & the refugees
Reply #574 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:09am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:04am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:58am:

mothra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:48am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:41am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:37am:

[quote author=mothra link=1452140756/560#560 date=1453731904]Awwww. Poor bloody dog.

Tell me about it, his owners are criminals.

humans are more important than animals. Damn, theres that moral compass again.

In what context? We're not more important in many of them.[/quoteAt its most basic, Im a human, my species is more important.

Perhaps when we look at it from a starving person vs starving dog who do we prioritise food for. But when a human takes on the responsibility of looking after a dog, or a cat, or any domesticated animal, it is their job to make sure they do it appropriately. A fat dog isn't cute. It's cruel. And that person has failed in their responsibility, making a living creature suffer. There needs to be repercussion. In your eyes a human being more important does not mean they shouldn't be held accountable for their actions.

No argument from me.

I don't however, think humans are more important.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Merkel & the refugees
Reply #575 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:10am

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:06am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:02am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:55am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:48am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:40am:

im on record. i believe in increasing refugee intake. Ive been upfront about this. you need to take a chill pill. Calm down, stop the wrist flapping and take a few deep breaths.

the refugee intake is for permament resettlement - which is a voluntary programme. You do understand there is no actual limit to how many refugees we take up, right?

i have no issue with taking as many refugees as we can handle. under some conditions. if we take refugees into this country we have a responsibility to make sure they have the resources available to become productive citizens. This is our responsibility. Dont take them if we arent willing to make the resources available.

Of course. No disagreement.

this is the issue i have, we are bringing in refugees and abandoning them. many are coming from war zones, prone to violence and PTSD. we are not recognising this.

we are abandoning because rational debate on the issue has disappeared and all we have left is a government aware of international obligations and a civil society on stretched finances doing the job that's better carried out by the public service.

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mothra

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Re: Merkel & the refugees
Reply #576 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:10am

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:06am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:02am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:55am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:48am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:40am:

im on record. i believe in increasing refugee intake. Ive been upfront about this. you need to take a chill pill. Calm down, stop the wrist flapping and take a few deep breaths.

the refugee intake is for permament resettlement - which is a voluntary programme. You do understand there is no actual limit to how many refugees we take up, right?

i have no issue with taking as many refugees as we can handle. under some conditions. if we take refugees into this country we have a responsibility to make sure they have the resources available to become productive citizens. This is our responsibility. Dont take them if we arent willing to make the resources available.

Of course. No disagreement.

this is the issue i have, we are bringing in refugees and abandoning them. many are coming from war zones, prone to violence and PTSD. we are not recognising this.

A salient point.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Merkel & the refugees
Reply #577 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:12am

mothra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:09am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:04am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:58am:

mothra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:48am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:41am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:37am:

[quote author=mothra link=1452140756/560#560 date=1453731904]Awwww. Poor bloody dog.

Tell me about it, his owners are criminals.

humans are more important than animals. Damn, theres that moral compass again.

In what context? We're not more important in many of them.[/quoteAt its most basic, Im a human, my species is more important.

Perhaps when we look at it from a starving person vs starving dog who do we prioritise food for. But when a human takes on the responsibility of looking after a dog, or a cat, or any domesticated animal, it is their job to make sure they do it appropriately. A fat dog isn't cute. It's cruel. And that person has failed in their responsibility, making a living creature suffer. There needs to be repercussion. In your eyes a human being more important does not mean they shouldn't be held accountable for their actions.

No argument from me.

I don't however, think humans are more important.

From a biodiversity perspective probably not. I'd just say if you look at a crisis, the human response will be to direct resources to humans predominately. Millions of animals were burnt in the Black Saturday bush fires, and while there was a tremendous volunteer effort to help, predominately government resources went to help in human tragedy, not animal.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Merkel & the refugees Reply #578 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:15am mothra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:09am: I don't however, think humans are more important. you have a choice, rescue a drowning human or rescue a drowning dog. Which do you choose?
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mothra

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Re: Merkel & the refugees
Reply #579 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:17am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:12am:

mothra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:09am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:04am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:58am:

mothra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:48am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:41am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:37am:

[quote author=mothra link=1452140756/560#560 date=1453731904]Awwww. Poor bloody dog.

Tell me about it, his owners are criminals.

humans are more important than animals. Damn, theres that moral compass again.

In what context? We're not more important in many of them.[/quoteAt its most basic, Im a human, my species is more important.

Perhaps when we look at it from a starving person vs starving dog who do we prioritise food for. But when a human takes on the responsibility of looking after a dog, or a cat, or any domesticated animal, it is their job to make sure they do it appropriately. A fat dog isn't cute. It's cruel. And that person has failed in their responsibility, making a living creature suffer. There needs to be repercussion. In your eyes a human being more important does not mean they shouldn't be held accountable for their actions.

No argument from me.

I don't however, think humans are more important.

From a biodiversity perspective probably not. I'd just say if you look at a crisis, the human response will be to direct resources to humans predominately. Millions of animals were burnt in the Black Saturday bush fires, and while there was a tremendous volunteer effort to help, predominately government resources went to help in human tragedy, not animal.

Of course. There are countless examples of how we think we are more important.

I'm just saying you cannot, as Ian has done, say humans are more important without providing context.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 36379 Gender:	Re: Merkel & the refugees Reply #580 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:17am ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:15am: mothra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:09am: I don't however, think humans are more important. you have a choice, rescue a drowning human or rescue a drowning dog. Which do you choose? My brother's would throw that at me when i was 12. Think harder.
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sir prince duke alevine Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23619 Gender:	Re: Merkel & the refugees Reply #581 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:17am ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:15am: mothra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:09am: I don't however, think humans are more important. you have a choice, rescue a drowning human or rescue a drowning dog. Which do you choose? Are you the sheep dog, who went out to try and rescue the refugee?
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Merkel & the refugees
Reply #582 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:18am

mothra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:17am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:12am:

mothra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:09am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:04am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:58am:

mothra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:48am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:41am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 12:37am:

[quote author=mothra link=1452140756/560#560 date=1453731904]Awwww. Poor bloody dog.

Tell me about it, his owners are criminals.

humans are more important than animals. Damn, theres that moral compass again.

In what context? We're not more important in many of them.[/quoteAt its most basic, Im a human, my species is more important.

Perhaps when we look at it from a starving person vs starving dog who do we prioritise food for. But when a human takes on the responsibility of looking after a dog, or a cat, or any domesticated animal, it is their job to make sure they do it appropriately. A fat dog isn't cute. It's cruel. And that person has failed in their responsibility, making a living creature suffer. There needs to be repercussion. In your eyes a human being more important does not mean they shouldn't be held accountable for their actions.

No argument from me.

I don't however, think humans are more important.

From a biodiversity perspective probably not. I'd just say if you look at a crisis, the human response will be to direct resources to humans predominately. Millions of animals were burnt in the Black Saturday bush fires, and while there was a tremendous volunteer effort to help, predominately government resources went to help in human tragedy, not animal.

Of course. There are countless examples of how we think we are more important.

I'm just saying you cannot, as Ian has done, say humans are more important without providing context.

Yes well Ian has a problem with context. He just likes to blurt stuff out and hope it makes sense.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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ian

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Re: Merkel & the refugees
Reply #583 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:22am

mothra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:17am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:15am:

mothra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:09am:

I don't however, think humans are more important.

you have a choice, rescue a drowning human or rescue a drowning dog. Which do you choose?

My brother's would throw that at me when i was 12. Think harder.

too scared to answer? its a simple question.

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mothra

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Re: Merkel & the refugees
Reply #584 - Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:27am

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:22am:

mothra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:17am:

ian wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:15am:

mothra wrote on Jan 26^th, 2016 at 1:09am:

I don't however, think humans are more important.

you have a choice, rescue a drowning human or rescue a drowning dog. Which do you choose?

My brother's would throw that at me when i was 12. Think harder.

too scared to answer? its a simple question.

It's a stupid question. Firstly, i would never be in that situation. You are trying to establish what life i hold in higher worth. You have completely avoided my rebuttal to date.

Which is, unlike your pointless and childish hypothetical, relevant.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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