Australian Politics Forum - The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic

Andrei.Hicks

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #45 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 2:14am

I've seen some bizarre convos in my time but this one this afternoon is up there.

The "Hasbara" slur is always ridiculous. Always has been.

Sure there is a team in Israel that promotes the country and the idea of a safe homeland for a people persecuted for centuries and of their right of return to ancestral homeland.

However it's also used too often by the misinformed to anyone who defends the country and ideology that the state of Israel represents.

Often a nasty undercurrent of anti Semitism is prevalent - as I see with The Australian Greens.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #46 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 2:19am

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 1:21am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 8:55pm:

Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 8:43pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 8:02pm:

Members of my family are and have been in the Israeli Defence Forces.
My family have fought for Israel in both the Six Day War and Yom Kippur War.

If being on a little list on an Internet site is the cost of holding my opinion on the subject, I believe I will sleep at night.

If you love Israel, why did you leave?

I didn't leave. I've never lived there.
My family there are uncles, aunts and cousins who went under the ancestral right of return program, Aaliyah

Ah. Some of my husband's family went through that program.

The rest settled in the UK and Australia.

Anyway...night and sweet dreams Wink

Up!

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Lisa Jones

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #47 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 2:20am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 2:14am:

I've seen some bizarre convos in my time but this one this afternoon is up there.

The "Hasbara" slur is always ridiculous. Always has been.

Sure there is a team in Israel that promotes the country and the idea of a safe homeland for a people persecuted for centuries and of their right of return to ancestral homeland.

However it's also used too often by the misinformed to anyone who defends the country and ideology that the state of Israel represents.

Often a nasty undercurrent of anti Semitism is prevalent - as I see with The Australian Greens.

Yep. 100% correct!

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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random

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #48 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 7:03am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 10:35pm:

random wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

I recommend they exercise the right. Go with them, they are under threat apparently.

I am not sure I understand your point.

They are in Israel as a result of moving there under the right of return.
I have not done so, neither have my parents before me.

So I don't get your issue?

I wrongly assumed they were all here. But my point essentially is about remote Nationalism. Objections to human rights violations, imperialism, military aggression etc I'm ok with anyone anywhere having an opinion on those. They are principles.

Some line is cross when the objection is Nationalistic, such as we see about Israel, or Lebanon or any other nation, by people who are removed descendants. When that happens there will always be the retort from people like me for them to go back there and help.

Nationalism is evil. Nationalism justifies crimes that are otherwise seen to be illegal, like those recently perpetrated by George Bush and his co-conspirators. Crimes like dropping white phosphorous on Gaza after herding the locals into that concentration camp. But through the lens of Nationalism they are somehow excusable, to Nationalists.

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic Reply #49 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 7:14am You understand the sensitivities of using the term concentration camp I take it? By the way nobody is herded anywhere in Gaza. There is not one IDF soldier in Gaza. It is completely and totally controlled by the Palestinian authorities.
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Lisa Jones

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #50 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 7:39am

random wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 7:03am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 10:35pm:

random wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 9:00pm:

I recommend they exercise the right. Go with them, they are under threat apparently.

I am not sure I understand your point.

They are in Israel as a result of moving there under the right of return.
I have not done so, neither have my parents before me.

So I don't get your issue?

I wrongly assumed they were all here. But my point essentially is about remote Nationalism. Objections to human rights violations, imperialism, military aggression etc I'm ok with anyone anywhere having an opinion on those. They are principles.

Some line is cross when the objection is Nationalistic, such as we see about Israel, or Lebanon or any other nation, by people who are removed descendants. When that happens there will always be the retort from people like me for them to go back there and help.

Nationalism is evil. Nationalism justifies crimes that are otherwise seen to be illegal, like those recently perpetrated by George Bush and his co-conspirators. Crimes like dropping white phosphorous on Gaza after herding the locals into that concentration camp. But through the lens of Nationalism they are somehow excusable, to Nationalists.

nationalism definition.

The strong belief that the interests of a particular nation-state are of primary importance. Also, the belief that a people who share a common language, history, and culture should constitute an independent nation, free of foreign domination.

Nationalism is evil eh?

NO! WHAT IS EVIL IS YOUR TAKE ON BLURRING THE LINES BTWN NATIONALISM AND EXTREME NATIONALISM.

When multi nics like you pop up online to spread your misinformation, believe you me....you will be called on the rubbish you post.

Outta here. You disgust me!

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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random Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2637 Gender:	Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic Reply #51 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 7:45am Help me out then. What's the difference between Nationalism and extreme Nationalism?
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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #52 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 7:52am

I'm not sure it's nationalism.
I'm not an Israeli citizen or national.
I'm a citizen of the United Kingdom and Australia.

I would however defend the state of Israel without question if called upon because of what it stands for and what people I would be defending.
Which kind of shoots the nationalism argument in the foot.
It's about a people and an ideology. A Jewish state in the ancestral holy land.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Lisa Jones Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 39047 Sydney Gender:	Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic Reply #53 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 7:52am random wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 7:45am: Help me out then. What's the difference between Nationalism and extreme Nationalism? The help you require is of a psychological nature. And I've already indicated what nationalism is.
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Lisa Jones

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #54 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 7:53am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 2:14am:

I've seen some bizarre convos in my time but this one this afternoon is up there.

The "Hasbara" slur is always ridiculous. Always has been.

Sure there is a team in Israel that promotes the country and the idea of a safe homeland for a people persecuted for centuries and of their right of return to ancestral homeland.

However it's also used too often by the misinformed to anyone who defends the country and ideology that the state of Israel represents.

Often a nasty undercurrent of anti Semitism is prevalent - as I see with The Australian Greens.

And dangerous multi nics such as RANDOM.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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random

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #55 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 8:03am

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 7:52am:

random wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 7:45am:

Help me out then.

What's the difference between Nationalism and extreme Nationalism?

The help you require is of a psychological nature.

And I've already indicated what nationalism is.

Your posts are not coherent. First you accuse me of blurring a line but you cannot define that line. Roll Eyes

You operate on emotion, not logic. NTTAWWT as long as you recognise it and don't attempt rational conversation..

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« Last Edit: Jan 5^th, 2016 at 8:11am by random »

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random

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #56 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 8:11am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 7:52am:

I'm not sure it's nationalism.
I'm not an Israeli citizen or national.
I'm a citizen of the United Kingdom and Australia.

I would however defend the state of Israel without question if called upon because of what it stands for and what people I would be defending.
Which kind of shoots the nationalism argument in the foot.
It's about a people and an ideology. A Jewish state in the ancestral holy land.

Yes I can see the subtlety. But it now claims to be a nation state containing people who are not Jewish and not necessarily religious.

Someone should have pulled out the ancestral home thing for the North American Indians or the Australian Aboriginals. Sounds like a useful approach. Perhaps the Kurds and the Palestinians would be interested.

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Yadda

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #57 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 11:10pm

random,

You'll criticise and condemn Israel and the Jewish people, .....for lawfully RE-establishing their own nation, ......within their own ancestral homeland, ......at the behest of the United Nations, in the period immediately following WWII.

But you willingly defend a group of people who [as 'an article of faith', of their religion] want to murder EVERY Jew, and destroy Israel.

Google;
will not come, until you fight jews

Google;
there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him

You willingly defend the [murderous] 'hopes' of a people who support a philosophy like this...

-------------- >

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"....."
Koran 60:4

.

"Fighting [against disbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

.

IMAGE....

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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random Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2637 Gender:	Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic Reply #58 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 6:04am Wow, it must take some effort to format those scattered emails. Although I have heard that there are generators out there for sock personalities that do this well. Apparently some of these generators have been developed by the Israelis, smart people.
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Lisa Jones

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #59 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 6:32am

random wrote on Jan 6^th, 2016 at 6:04am:

Wow, it must take some effort to format those scattered emails. Although I have heard that there are generators out there for sock personalities that do this well.

Apparently some of these generators have been developed by the Israelis, smart people.

^^^^^^ Passive-aggressive racism at its best.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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