Australian Politics Forum - The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic

Dnarever

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #120 - Jan 9^th, 2016 at 11:04am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 8^th, 2016 at 10:18pm:

You don't just plonk people somewhere.
The land of Israel has been there for centuries.
It is referred to in the bible.

It is a land given to our people by God himself if you like.

1948 is just a date where things occurred.
Israel is much much much older than that.

What about support for the settlements ?

There are currently 121 settlements growing at about 5% per year
Where they just keep going out and taking more land that does not belong to them ?

How about the 102 outposts.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #121 - Jan 9^th, 2016 at 12:18pm

The settlements are a disputed situation which is slightly different.

Though I would add the last Resolution calling them illegal failed.

Resolution proposes that all Israeli settlements established in the occupied Palestinian territories after 1967 be condemned, and urged that Israel and Palestine comply with their obligations under the Road Map plan in order to establish a two-State solution.

YES - 14 (Gabon, Nigeria, South Africa, Lebanon, India, Brazil, Columbia, Germany, Portugal, Bosnia, France, China, UK, Russia)

NO - 1 (United States of America)

RESOLUTION FAIL - UNITED STATES VETO

"The United States cannot, and will not, support resolutions which harden the positions of both sides and which do little to encourage both to stay in negotiations. It remains the position of the United States that this Resolution would do little to assist peace in the region."
Susan Powers, US Ambassador to the UN

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« Last Edit: Jan 9^th, 2016 at 12:30pm by Andrei.Hicks »

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Dnarever

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #122 - Jan 9^th, 2016 at 12:39pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 9^th, 2016 at 12:18pm:

The settlements are a disputed situation which is slightly different.

Though I would add the last Resolution calling them illegal failed.

Resolution proposes that all Israeli settlements established in the occupied Palestinian territories after 1967 be condemned, and urged that Israel and Palestine comply with their obligations under the Road Map plan in order to establish a two-State solution.

YES - 14 (Gabon, Nigeria, South Africa, Lebanon, India, Brazil, Columbia, Germany, Portugal, Bosnia, France, China, UK, Russia)

NO - 1 (United States of America)

RESOLUTION FAIL - UNITED STATES VETO

"The United States cannot, and will not, support resolutions which harden the positions of both sides and which do little to encourage both to stay in negotiations. It remains the position of the United States that this Resolution would do little to assist peace in the region."
Susan Powers, US Ambassador to the UN

The settlements are a disputed situation which is slightly different.

No not different at all.

Either they are there or they are not. Either they have some right to be there or they do not.

The situation is that yes they are there and no they have no right to be there. It is not different and it is really simple. Holding a stacked position in the UN is irrelevant.

I am not anti Israel but on this they are wrong.

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the good ole boys Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 658 Gender:	Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic Reply #123 - Jan 9^th, 2016 at 12:57pm Too bad you don't hold the same view on multiculturalism in Australia.
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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #124 - Jan 9^th, 2016 at 10:17pm

The settlements and East Jerusalem are disputed.
The Arabs attacked Israel on several occasions and ended up losing areas west of the Jordan.
So you can't really attack someone, then bitch and moan when you get your ass handed to you and lose land.

My cousin currently defends the settlement of Gush Etzion near Bethlehem, but says to me that the level of violence on an almost daily basis by Palestinians is shocking.
Kicking family cars as they leave, throwing rocks at soldier positions, attempting to break into the settlements.
Seems they just never learn.

But as regards a position, it's different because it's disputed.
Israel does not believe they are illegal. The Arab world does. The UN can't come to an agreement if they are (hence resolutions failing).

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic Reply #125 - Jan 9^th, 2016 at 10:26pm Worth noting that in the last few years the votes on Israel saw the United States vetoing positions with support on the SC from Australia. On the subject of statehood for Palestinians, Australia voted NO.
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Aussie

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #126 - Jan 9^th, 2016 at 10:35pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 9^th, 2016 at 10:17pm:

The settlements and East Jerusalem are disputed.
The Arabs attacked Israel on several occasions and ended up losing areas west of the Jordan.
So you can't really attack someone, then bitch and moan when you get your ass handed to you and lose land.

My cousin currently defends the settlement of Gush Etzion near Bethlehem, but says to me that the level of violence on an almost daily basis by Palestinians is shocking.
Kicking family cars as they leave, throwing rocks at soldier positions, attempting to break into the settlements.
Seems they just never learn.

But as regards a position, it's different because it's disputed.
Israel does not believe they are illegal. The Arab world does. The UN can't come to an agreement if they are (hence resolutions failing).

There is an arrogance of inalienable right about what you say Hicks. I'm neither Arab nor Jew and I have no personal dog in this fight. What I do know is that I have had enough of schitt fights about Israel. That is what really threatens world peace. One day, I hope Palestine is recognised as a sovereign State, just like Israel was as nothing more than an appeasement after WW2. Israel need not be where it is.....surrounded by barbarians as you claim. Forget all that garbage about historical right backed up by some book which is also pretty flakey.

Get out of Arabia. You do not belong there. Even if you do.....how long do you reckon you'd last if the US abandoned you?

Tasmania, Nauru, etc etc.

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic Reply #127 - Jan 10^th, 2016 at 10:38am I have no personal affiliation. I am neither Israeli or Palestinian. However undue and biased criticism of Israel is all too prevalent today.
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bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic Reply #128 - Jan 10^th, 2016 at 12:21pm Just for the record, I am not Jewish and I object to the piece of filth who started this thread including my name. I do however: - support Israel's right to exist - it's right to defend itself from constant attacks, including pre-emptively
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Redmond Neck

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #129 - Jan 10^th, 2016 at 12:51pm

Just to set the record straight for Andrei's benefit

I apoligise for the graphic photos I posted that got me banned.

For most of my life now approaching 71, I was very sympathetic to the Israelis after what Hitler did to them.

Some years ago I began to realise that despite this, Israel seemed to treat the Palestinians very badly. Check the numbers killed on both sides and an army vs some rebel fight back.

Put simply this included building walls around their areas and taking over their land for settlements with complete impunity because of the USA's veto in the UN.

Now if this happened to you Andrei what would you do?

Fight back in any way you could I suspect.

I dont believe in any god given right to a homeland by anyone Israeli or Palestinian but the Pallos were there when Israel was created so they do have a claim.

A nation including both is the only answer, however I don't have much hope of that

I am not advocating terrorism Andrei by Palestinians or Israelis.

I hope I wont be banned for writing this!

I am in no way pro ISIS so please dont try to suggest that any of you other lot.

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BAN ALL THESE ABO SITES RECOGNITIONS.

ALL AUSTRALIA IS FOR ALL AUSTRALIANS!

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic Reply #130 - Jan 10^th, 2016 at 1:17pm Redneck you are completely entitled to your opinion and doing so would never see you banned. I don't agree with your view but many would.
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Dnarever

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #131 - Jan 10^th, 2016 at 1:34pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 10^th, 2016 at 10:38am:

I have no personal affiliation. I am neither Israeli or Palestinian.
However undue and biased criticism of Israel is all too prevalent today.

Israel enjoyed decades of unquestioning support even though on many occasions they were wrong. What you call biased criticism in my view is more a move by many to an unbiased position or giving criticism where it is due.

Less people are blind followers then has been the case in the past.

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Dnarever

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #132 - Jan 10^th, 2016 at 1:36pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 9^th, 2016 at 10:26pm:

Worth noting that in the last few years the votes on Israel saw the United States vetoing positions with support on the SC from Australia.
On the subject of statehood for Palestinians, Australia voted NO.

Didn't Australia to our shame abstain from voting. While we were a disgrace on the topic we did not support the US who vetoes the vote. The US vote on behalf of their huge Jewish community that holds significant political weight in their country.

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Sun Tzu

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #133 - Jan 10^th, 2016 at 3:03pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 7:14am:

You understand the sensitivities of using the term concentration camp I take it?

By the way nobody is herded anywhere in Gaza. There is not one IDF soldier in Gaza. It is completely and totally controlled by the Palestinian authorities.

That is totally untrue. The people of Gaza are prisoners held in concentration camp conditions with their homes bombed.

Israel shoots anyone in Gaza that approaches the border fence within 300 m. Many Gazans have been killed by Israel in proximity to the border fence.

Palestinians are not allowed in or out of Gaza unless Israel allows it.

Goods are not allowed into or out of Gaza unless Israel allows it.

Israel has killed unarmed people on peace flotilla's bringing aid to Gaza and pirated and plundered the vessels. The latest being the Mavi Marmara. Six of the 10 victims were killed execution style by bullet to the head.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid

Quote:

In August 2010, United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon announced that the U.N. would conduct an investigation of the incident. A separate investigation was conducted by the United Nations Human Rights Council. The findings of this committee, published on 22 September 2010, called the Israeli operation "disproportionate" and condemned its "unacceptable level of brutality".[48] The UN Human Rights Council had also condemned the raid in June, before its investigation.[49] Another resolution backing the report was passed despite American opposition and EU abstention....

... A UNHRC fact-finding mission described six of the nine passengers' deaths (10th died later in hospital) as "summary execution" by the Israeli commandos....

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: The Hasbara trolls are busy on Ozpolitic
Reply #134 - Jan 10^th, 2016 at 7:56pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 10^th, 2016 at 1:36pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 9^th, 2016 at 10:26pm:

Worth noting that in the last few years the votes on Israel saw the United States vetoing positions with support on the SC from Australia.
On the subject of statehood for Palestinians, Australia voted NO.

Didn't Australia to our shame abstain from voting. While we were a disgrace on the topic we did not support the US who vetoes the vote. The US vote on behalf of their huge Jewish community that holds significant political weight in their country.

I was referring to the Dec 2014 vote when 3 countries voted NO.
Australia was one.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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