Australian Politics Forum - They breed them smart at Lib HQ

Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: They breed them smart at Lib HQ
Reply #60 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 8:07pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 10:16am:

Turning back refugee applicants is a breach of our UN agreement on human rights.

That agreement can be ignored or withdrawn.

Quote:

Allowing refugee applicants has nothing to do with open boarders, that is a very different thing.

Without an enforced quota, it becomes open borders.

Quote:

A quota is just an arbitrary BS number that somebody made up.

Qutoas are set by the government of the day. It was 12,000, then it moved to 20,000, and it's now back to 12,000, I think. Labor want to raise it to 13,500(?). But you are correct, in that the figure can be changed at the government's discretion.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: They breed them smart at Lib HQ
Reply #61 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 9:16pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 10:40pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 10:35pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 10:28pm:

It's probably become more stringent now the Liberals are in charge. Under Labor all one had to do was spin some story about persecution.

You say, probably - meaning you aren't sure. That is assumption. The tests are the same as before - I think. People applying still have to pass medical, character, and identity tests - the only difference is that the LNP has decreed that any arriving by boat, who are not supposed to be punished in any way for their method of arrival, will not be settled here, but will be sent post haste to the Malaria/Typhoid/Cholera/AIDS Belt, where they will make a living selling their daughters into sex slavery or by growing poppies in the Golden Triangle for some drug warlord.......

No punishment there.... nah.....

I studied this stuff at Uni level, but that was in 2005.

Presuming your post is correct, then how does that refute an open border policy when Labor wouldn't 'turn back the boats' once the quota was reached?

It is not the right or duty of government to intercept vessels of a foreign nation on the High Seas, and that means there are no rights adhering to that government to 'turn back the boats' until such time as they reach territorial waters. It is at that point that refugee claimants may legally and legitimately request asylum from an officer of the nation..... so you can see how this legal situation places a government in a situation difficult to win IF the intention is to NOT process those who arrive in this manner.

So no - not turning back boats is not an 'open border policy' - it is strict adherence to Law, and in no way opens the border to persons who will not be detained and processed, thus obviating the entire concept of the border being open, since those people may NOT enter the nation and go about any business they choose, but rather are detained for processing and tests.

The ONLY excuse used to 'turn back the boats', and the only thing that gives that action legitimacy is by adhering to it the label of 'humanitarian act', based on the idea that turning them back is saving them from a watery death.

This is very shaky ground and has nothing to do with border security, but is a humanitarian gesture.. or rather is border security disguised as a humanitarian gesture.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: They breed them smart at Lib HQ
Reply #62 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 10:29pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 8:03pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 5:00am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 7:31pm:

cods wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 7:21pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 7:17pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 10:53am:

The Liberal party is filled with probably the dumbest ****s in Parliament. How Dutton, Ley or Hunt got into leadership positions in this country is beyond me. While Hunt I guess you can explain as basically the real world Smithers, Dutton and Ley are the human equivalent of potatoes.

Yet they rule. Where are Labor and the Greens again?

they are even lower on the scale of brains....WALLY AND BILLYNUMNUTS...they make an excellent duo...

shame isnt it.. no matter what they come up with we can always better them...

I think its so funny...

dutton makes a boo boo that just about everyone has done at some stage of their lives... and LOOK AT THE ATTENTION THEY ARE GIVING HIM..

I cant wait for BILLYNUMNUTS to bring it up in Parliament... Grin

Labor is the dumbest of the 3 parties by far. At least the Greens are consistent in the type of people they attract. Labor, on the other hand, the so-called working mans' party, is full of elitist fools who think gay marriage and open borders are the most important issues facing the working classes. Absolute fools.

Actually, it's the nutters in the conservative wing of the lib/nats who are the only ones left thinking same sex marriage is a big issue. The rest just want to pass the legislation and move on with life.

Doc, as someone with a Ph.D. In political something or rather, why do you oppose secular states?

Gay marriage affects about .000001% of the population. It does nothing to help the working classes.

So why do you keep talking about it? The rest of us just wish to pass it and move on with life.

And you didn't answer, doc, how can someone as educated as you want to ignore the secular nature of our political system?

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Melanias purse Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 101446	Re: They breed them smart at Lib HQ Reply #63 - Jan 5^th, 2016 at 11:25pm I’m more curious about why Mistie referred to the working classes. He usually pretends class doesn’t exist.
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Dnarever

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Re: They breed them smart at Lib HQ
Reply #64 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 7:11am

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 9:16pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 10:40pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 10:35pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 10:28pm:

It's probably become more stringent now the Liberals are in charge. Under Labor all one had to do was spin some story about persecution.

You say, probably - meaning you aren't sure. That is assumption. The tests are the same as before - I think. People applying still have to pass medical, character, and identity tests - the only difference is that the LNP has decreed that any arriving by boat, who are not supposed to be punished in any way for their method of arrival, will not be settled here, but will be sent post haste to the Malaria/Typhoid/Cholera/AIDS Belt, where they will make a living selling their daughters into sex slavery or by growing poppies in the Golden Triangle for some drug warlord.......

No punishment there.... nah.....

I studied this stuff at Uni level, but that was in 2005.

Presuming your post is correct, then how does that refute an open border policy when Labor wouldn't 'turn back the boats' once the quota was reached?

It is not the right or duty of government to intercept vessels of a foreign nation on the High Seas, and that means there are no rights adhering to that government to 'turn back the boats' until such time as they reach territorial waters. It is at that point that refugee claimants may legally and legitimately request asylum from an officer of the nation..... so you can see how this legal situation places a government in a situation difficult to win IF the intention is to NOT process those who arrive in this manner.

So no - not turning back boats is not an 'open border policy' - it is strict adherence to Law, and in no way opens the border to persons who will not be detained and processed, thus obviating the entire concept of the border being open, since those people may NOT enter the nation and go about any business they choose, but rather are detained for processing and tests.

The ONLY excuse used to 'turn back the boats', and the only thing that gives that action legitimacy is by adhering to it the label of 'humanitarian act', based on the idea that turning them back is saving them from a watery death.

This is very shaky ground and has nothing to do with border security, but is a humanitarian gesture.. or rather is border security disguised as a humanitarian gesture.

The ONLY excuse used to 'turn back the boats', and the only thing that gives that action legitimacy is by adhering to it the label of 'humanitarian act', based on the idea that turning them back is saving them from a watery death.

Forcing them to make the crossing a second time after reaching safety is only increasing the risk ?

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 61362 Here Gender:	Re: They breed them smart at Lib HQ Reply #65 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 7:15am They breed them smart at Lib HQ Some say that there is a 50/50 chance that if they appoint another 3 ministers they may get their combined front bench IQ into double figures. Many doubt that they currently have the right 3 elected Liberals to achieve this result.
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 90003 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: They breed them smart at Lib HQ Reply #66 - Jan 6^th, 2016 at 7:16am Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2016 at 7:11am: Forcing them to make the crossing a second time after reaching safety is only increasing the risk ? A thinking person would have to say so. The risk increases exponentially with each successive attempt at a crossing.
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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: They breed them smart at Lib HQ
Reply #67 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 5:42am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 10:29pm:

So why do you keep talking about it? The rest of us just wish to pass it and move on with life.

Why does Labor keep talking about it?

Quote:

And you didn't answer, doc, how can someone as educated as you want to ignore the secular nature of our political system?

İ can't follow this line of argument: there should be gay marriage because of ... the secular nature of our political system?

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Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10300 Gender:	Re: They breed them smart at Lib HQ Reply #68 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 5:43am Melanias purse wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 11:25pm: I’m more curious about why Mistie referred to the working classes. He usually pretends class doesn’t exist. Where have İ denied class?
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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: They breed them smart at Lib HQ
Reply #69 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 5:44am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2016 at 7:15am:

They breed them smart at Lib HQ

Some say that there is a 50/50 chance that if they appoint another 3 ministers they may get their combined front bench IQ into double figures. Many doubt that they currently have the right 3 elected Liberals to achieve this result.

Yet, they rule while Labor and The Greens languish behind.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: They breed them smart at Lib HQ
Reply #70 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 5:48am

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 9:16pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 10:40pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 10:35pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 10:28pm:

It's probably become more stringent now the Liberals are in charge. Under Labor all one had to do was spin some story about persecution.

You say, probably - meaning you aren't sure. That is assumption. The tests are the same as before - I think. People applying still have to pass medical, character, and identity tests - the only difference is that the LNP has decreed that any arriving by boat, who are not supposed to be punished in any way for their method of arrival, will not be settled here, but will be sent post haste to the Malaria/Typhoid/Cholera/AIDS Belt, where they will make a living selling their daughters into sex slavery or by growing poppies in the Golden Triangle for some drug warlord.......

No punishment there.... nah.....

I studied this stuff at Uni level, but that was in 2005.

Presuming your post is correct, then how does that refute an open border policy when Labor wouldn't 'turn back the boats' once the quota was reached?

It is not the right or duty of government to intercept vessels of a foreign nation on the High Seas, and that means there are no rights adhering to that government to 'turn back the boats' until such time as they reach territorial waters. It is at that point that refugee claimants may legally and legitimately request asylum from an officer of the nation..... so you can see how this legal situation places a government in a situation difficult to win IF the intention is to NOT process those who arrive in this manner.

So no - not turning back boats is not an 'open border policy' - it is strict adherence to Law, and in no way opens the border to persons who will not be detained and processed, thus obviating the entire concept of the border being open, since those people may NOT enter the nation and go about any business they choose, but rather are detained for processing and tests.

The ONLY excuse used to 'turn back the boats', and the only thing that gives that action legitimacy is by adhering to it the label of 'humanitarian act', based on the idea that turning them back is saving them from a watery death.

This is very shaky ground and has nothing to do with border security, but is a humanitarian gesture.. or rather is border security disguised as a humanitarian gesture.

İ'll say it again: without an enforced quota it is open borders.

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Dnarever

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Re: They breed them smart at Lib HQ
Reply #71 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 6:10am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 7^th, 2016 at 5:48am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 9:16pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 10:40pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 10:35pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 4^th, 2016 at 10:28pm:

It's probably become more stringent now the Liberals are in charge. Under Labor all one had to do was spin some story about persecution.

You say, probably - meaning you aren't sure. That is assumption. The tests are the same as before - I think. People applying still have to pass medical, character, and identity tests - the only difference is that the LNP has decreed that any arriving by boat, who are not supposed to be punished in any way for their method of arrival, will not be settled here, but will be sent post haste to the Malaria/Typhoid/Cholera/AIDS Belt, where they will make a living selling their daughters into sex slavery or by growing poppies in the Golden Triangle for some drug warlord.......

No punishment there.... nah.....

I studied this stuff at Uni level, but that was in 2005.

Presuming your post is correct, then how does that refute an open border policy when Labor wouldn't 'turn back the boats' once the quota was reached?

It is not the right or duty of government to intercept vessels of a foreign nation on the High Seas, and that means there are no rights adhering to that government to 'turn back the boats' until such time as they reach territorial waters. It is at that point that refugee claimants may legally and legitimately request asylum from an officer of the nation..... so you can see how this legal situation places a government in a situation difficult to win IF the intention is to NOT process those who arrive in this manner.

So no - not turning back boats is not an 'open border policy' - it is strict adherence to Law, and in no way opens the border to persons who will not be detained and processed, thus obviating the entire concept of the border being open, since those people may NOT enter the nation and go about any business they choose, but rather are detained for processing and tests.

The ONLY excuse used to 'turn back the boats', and the only thing that gives that action legitimacy is by adhering to it the label of 'humanitarian act', based on the idea that turning them back is saving them from a watery death.

This is very shaky ground and has nothing to do with border security, but is a humanitarian gesture.. or rather is border security disguised as a humanitarian gesture.

İ'll say it again: without an enforced quota it is open borders.

Your opinion requires a different definition to what an open boarder is to any definition currently in use.

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 61362 Here Gender:	Re: They breed them smart at Lib HQ Reply #72 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 6:27am They breed them smart at Lib HQ The front bench breeding programme. The Liberalosaurusdrongo.
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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: They breed them smart at Lib HQ
Reply #73 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 6:45am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 7^th, 2016 at 5:42am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 10:29pm:

So why do you keep talking about it? The rest of us just wish to pass it and move on with life.

Why does Labor keep talking about it?

Quote:

And you didn't answer, doc, how can someone as educated as you want to ignore the secular nature of our political system?

İ can't follow this line of argument: there should be gay marriage because of ... the secular nature of our political system?

Really, doc? People are only talking a out it becauae virtually everyone except a few conservative nutjobs wants to just get it over and done with.

And the line of argument has to do with providing a valid reason against gay marriage that is secular in nature. Religion needs to stay out of politics.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: They breed them smart at Lib HQ
Reply #74 - Jan 7^th, 2016 at 7:28am

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 7^th, 2016 at 6:45am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 7^th, 2016 at 5:42am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Jan 5^th, 2016 at 10:29pm:

So why do you keep talking about it? The rest of us just wish to pass it and move on with life.

Why does Labor keep talking about it?

Quote:

And you didn't answer, doc, how can someone as educated as you want to ignore the secular nature of our political system?

İ can't follow this line of argument: there should be gay marriage because of ... the secular nature of our political system?

Really, doc? People are only talking a out it becauae virtually everyone except a few conservative nutjobs wants to just get it over and done with.

İf lefties never brought it up to begin with the conversation wouldn't exist at all. İmagine all this time and effort placed on something like unemployment.

Quote:

And the line of argument has to do with providing a valid reason against gay marriage that is secular in nature. Religion needs to stay out of politics.

İ've never argued agianst gay marriage. İ have, however, argued against the normalisation of sh*t punching and gayness in general. This hasn't been based in religion either, but that such normalisation isn't found in history and that normal people instinctively recoil from sh*t.

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