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Subsidies for electricity production. (Read 919 times)
Baronvonrort
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Subsidies for electricity production.
Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:17pm
 
Quote:
Table 1 (2013-2014)
Coal = $130 million
Gas= $15 million
Solar= $2,002 million
Wind= $388 million
Total fossil fuel= $145 million
Total renewables= = $2,788 million

Estimated subsidies- $/MWh
Coal= $0.86
Gas= $0.30
Solar= $412.11
Wind= $41.64
Total fossil fuel = $0.70
Total renewable= $75.75
minerals.org.au/file_upload/files/media_releases/Electricity_production_subsidie...



Renewable energy produces less electricity at a much greater cost, why should we have to subsidise it?
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Sun Tzu
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Re: Subsidies for electricity production.
Reply #1 - Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:21pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:17pm:
Quote:
Table 1 (2013-2014)
Coal = $130 million
Gas= $15 million
Solar= $2,002 million
Wind= $388 million
Total fossil fuel= $145 million
Total renewables= = $2,788 million

Estimated subsidies- $/MWh
Coal= $0.86
Gas= $0.30
Solar= $412.11
Wind= $41.64
Total fossil fuel = $0.70
Total renewable= $75.75
minerals.org.au/file_upload/files/media_releases/Electricity_production_subsidie...



Renewable energy produces less electricity at a much greater cost, why should we have to subsidise it?


The real question is, why is coal being subsidized?

The other information does not appear credible. One does not need to guess that minerals.org.au is proxy for coal and oil and gas companies.
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Subsidies for electricity production.
Reply #2 - Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:23pm
 
Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:21pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:17pm:
Quote:
Table 1 (2013-2014)
Coal = $130 million
Gas= $15 million
Solar= $2,002 million
Wind= $388 million
Total fossil fuel= $145 million
Total renewables= = $2,788 million

Estimated subsidies- $/MWh
Coal= $0.86
Gas= $0.30
Solar= $412.11
Wind= $41.64
Total fossil fuel = $0.70
Total renewable= $75.75
minerals.org.au/file_upload/files/media_releases/Electricity_production_subsidie...



Renewable energy produces less electricity at a much greater cost, why should we have to subsidise it?


The real question is, why is coal being subsidized?



Yes we should cut all subsidies including the fortune we are wasting on renewables.

Get a job and pay some taxes ya dopey bum.
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Sun Tzu
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Re: Subsidies for electricity production.
Reply #3 - Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:50pm
 
BaronVonRorts information must be a lie because it it was true nobody would ever have purchased a rooftop solar system.

If governments were offer such subsidies as $0.40 per kWh people would be climbing over each other to get the subsidy.

Following information from Europe on payback time 0.5-1.5 year for Solar system in Southern Europe. It must be even better in Australia because of the climate.

2MW wind turbine net benefit in less than 1 year.

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/12/26/solar-energy-payback-time-charts/

Quote:
So, as you can see, even with the technology of today, the energy payback of solar power is between ½ a year and 1½ years in Southern Europe and under 3 years in the rest of Europe (which has approximately the solar irradiance levels of Alaska). That’s quite a long time before the lifetime of solar panels, which have been shown to work to factory specs for over 30 years… and counting.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140616093317.htm
Quote:
US researchers have carried out an environmental lifecycle assessment of 2-megawatt wind turbines mooted for a large wind farm in the US Pacific Northwest. Writing in the International Journal of Sustainable Manufacturing, they conclude that in terms of cumulative energy payback, or the time to produce the amount of energy required of production and installation, a wind turbine with a working life of 20 years will offer a net benefit within five to eight months of being brought online.
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Subsidies for electricity production.
Reply #4 - Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:55pm
 
Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:50pm:
BaronVonRorts information must be a lie because it it was true nobody would ever have purchased a rooftop solar system]



What did your links have to do with subsidies in Australia ya dopey bum?

Try google for burning wind turbine

Get a job and pay some taxes ya dopey bum.
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Re: Subsidies for electricity production.
Reply #5 - Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:57pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:17pm:
Quote:
Table 1 (2013-2014)
Coal = $130 million
Gas= $15 million
Solar= $2,002 million
Wind= $388 million
Total fossil fuel= $145 million
Total renewables= = $2,788 million

Estimated subsidies- $/MWh
Coal= $0.86
Gas= $0.30
Solar= $412.11
Wind= $41.64
Total fossil fuel = $0.70
Total renewable= $75.75
minerals.org.au/file_upload/files/media_releases/Electricity_production_subsidie...



Renewable energy produces less electricity at a much greater cost, why should we have to subsidise it?


5 trillion a year in diesel subsidies world wide. Lets get rid of them as well Wink
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Subsidies for electricity production.
Reply #6 - Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:59pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:57pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:17pm:
Quote:
Table 1 (2013-2014)
Coal = $130 million
Gas= $15 million
Solar= $2,002 million
Wind= $388 million
Total fossil fuel= $145 million
Total renewables= = $2,788 million

Estimated subsidies- $/MWh
Coal= $0.86
Gas= $0.30
Solar= $412.11
Wind= $41.64
Total fossil fuel = $0.70
Total renewable= $75.75
minerals.org.au/file_upload/files/media_releases/Electricity_production_subsidie...



Renewable energy produces less electricity at a much greater cost, why should we have to subsidise it?


5 trillion a year in diesel subsidies world wide. Lets get rid of them as well Wink


Typical leftist megalomaniacs  wanting to dictate to the whole world. Grin Cheesy
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Sir lastnail
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Re: Subsidies for electricity production.
Reply #7 - Jan 3rd, 2016 at 4:17pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:59pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:57pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:17pm:
Quote:
Table 1 (2013-2014)
Coal = $130 million
Gas= $15 million
Solar= $2,002 million
Wind= $388 million
Total fossil fuel= $145 million
Total renewables= = $2,788 million

Estimated subsidies- $/MWh
Coal= $0.86
Gas= $0.30
Solar= $412.11
Wind= $41.64
Total fossil fuel = $0.70
Total renewable= $75.75
minerals.org.au/file_upload/files/media_releases/Electricity_production_subsidie...



Renewable energy produces less electricity at a much greater cost, why should we have to subsidise it?


5 trillion a year in diesel subsidies world wide. Lets get rid of them as well Wink


Typical leftist megalomaniacs  wanting to dictate to the whole world. Grin Cheesy


so you want to keep deisel subsidies but get rid of renewable subsidies ? Typical rightard bowing down at the feet of greed incorporated and their fossil fool muck Sad
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lee
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Re: Subsidies for electricity production.
Reply #8 - Jan 3rd, 2016 at 4:25pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:57pm:
5 trillion a year in diesel subsidies world wide.



Source please.
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Sun Tzu
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Re: Subsidies for electricity production.
Reply #9 - Jan 3rd, 2016 at 4:29pm
 
Why is growth of renewable energy sources exceeding that of carbon fuels?


Quote:
The race for renewable energy has passed a turning point. The world is now adding more capacity for renewable power each year than coal, natural gas, and oil combined. And there's no going back.
The shift occurred in 2013, when the world added 143 gigawatts of renewable electricity capacity, compared with 141 gigawatts in new plants that burn fossil fuels, according to an analysis presented Tuesday at the Bloomberg New Energy Finance annual summit in New York. The shift will continue to accelerate, and by 2030 more than four times as much renewable capacity will be added.


"The electricity system is shifting to clean,'' Michael Liebreich, founder of BNEF, said in his keynote address. "Despite the change in oil and gas prices there is going to be a substantial buildout of renewable energy that is likely to be an order of magnitude larger than the buildout of coal and gas."

The Beginning of the End

The price of wind and solar power continues to plummet, and is now on par or cheaper than grid electricity in many areas of the world. Solar, the newest major source of energy in the mix, makes up less than 1 percent of the electricity market today but could be the world’s biggest single source by 2050, according to the International Energy Agency.

The question is no longer if the world will transition to cleaner energy, but how long it will take. In the chart below, BNEF forecasts the billions of dollars that need to be invested each year in order to avoid the most severe consequences of climate change, represented by a benchmark increase of more than 2 degrees Celsius.

The blue lines are what's needed, in billions; the red lines show what's actually being spent. Since the financial crisis, funding has fallen well short of the target, according to BNEF.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-14/fossil-fuels-just-lost-the-rac...
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Subsidies for electricity production.
Reply #10 - Jan 3rd, 2016 at 4:32pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 4:17pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:59pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:57pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:17pm:
Quote:
Table 1 (2013-2014)
Coal = $130 million
Gas= $15 million
Solar= $2,002 million
Wind= $388 million
Total fossil fuel= $145 million
Total renewables= = $2,788 million

Estimated subsidies- $/MWh
Coal= $0.86
Gas= $0.30
Solar= $412.11
Wind= $41.64
Total fossil fuel = $0.70
Total renewable= $75.75
minerals.org.au/file_upload/files/media_releases/Electricity_production_subsidie...



Renewable energy produces less electricity at a much greater cost, why should we have to subsidise it?


5 trillion a year in diesel subsidies world wide. Lets get rid of them as well Wink


Typical leftist megalomaniacs  wanting to dictate to the whole world. Grin Cheesy


so you want to keep deisel subsidies but get rid of renewable subsidies ? Typical rightard bowing down at the feet of greed incorporated and their fossil fool muck Sad


The topic is subsidies for electricity production like a typical retarded brain dead leftist you are crapping on about something not relevant to this thread.

Why do dikhead leftists want to tax farmers more, do you want to pay more for food when they pass the costs on to the consumers?



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Sun Tzu
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Re: Subsidies for electricity production.
Reply #11 - Jan 3rd, 2016 at 4:38pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 4:32pm:
The topic is subsidies for electricity production like a typical retarded brain dead leftist you are crapping on about something not relevant to this thread.

Why do dikhead leftists want to tax farmers more, do you want to pay more for food when they pass the costs on to the consumers?


All subisidies cause economic distortions which result in misallocation of resources. There should be no subsidies without a demonstrable eventual economic benefit.

In the case of renewable energy the benefit is tangible and demonstrable in improvement of environment and climate.
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Subsidies for electricity production.
Reply #12 - Jan 3rd, 2016 at 5:15pm
 
Sun Tzu wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 4:38pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 4:32pm:
The topic is subsidies for electricity production like a typical retarded brain dead leftist you are crapping on about something not relevant to this thread.

Why do dikhead leftists want to tax farmers more, do you want to pay more for food when they pass the costs on to the consumers?


In the case of renewable energy the benefit is tangible and demonstrable in improvement of environment and climate.


South Australia has the largest amount of wind power it also has the nations highest electricity prices, is this the tangible benefits dopey dim wits like you claim.

Quote:
South Australia has the nations highest penetration of wind power and highest electricity prices.
It's last coal fired power station will close in 2016,having been pushed out of the market by subsidised wind,and it's increasingly reliant on limited interconnector with Victoria.

If you don't have affordable electricity ,you don't have sustainable jobs.

The South Australian government is putting ideological purity ahead of its responsibility to encourage a competitive electricity market for citizens and business.

More government subsidies either directly to business or renewable energy operators are not the answer


ipa.org.au/publications/2454/south-Australian-electricity-crisis-coming-to-a-hea...



sh1t Tzu/Svengali/Laugh till you cry- get a job and pay some taxes ya dopey bum
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Re: Subsidies for electricity production.
Reply #13 - Jan 3rd, 2016 at 6:13pm
 
I have had arguments with a lot of people who think the solution to global warming is to heavily subsidise renewable energy - ie to compete with the fossil fuel subsidies, or use a carbon tax to subsidise clean energy.

Electricity is not some kind of fundamental human right. At the very least, we should be charged what it costs to produce and distribute. One of the cheapest ways to reduce our GHG emissions is to use less electricity.
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Re: Subsidies for electricity production.
Reply #14 - Jan 3rd, 2016 at 8:15pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jan 3rd, 2016 at 3:17pm:
Quote:
Table 1 (2013-2014)
Coal = $130 million
Gas= $15 million
Solar= $2,002 million
Wind= $388 million
Total fossil fuel= $145 million
Total renewables= = $2,788 million

Estimated subsidies- $/MWh
Coal= $0.86
Gas= $0.30
Solar= $412.11
Wind= $41.64
Total fossil fuel = $0.70
Total renewable= $75.75
minerals.org.au/file_upload/files/media_releases/Electricity_production_subsidie...



Renewable energy produces less electricity at a much greater cost, why should we have to subsidise it?


You don't subsidise my solar

more like I subsidise you
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