Australian Politics Forum - How Costello gave us a Budget deficit

Dnarever

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Re: How Costello gave us a Budget deficit
Reply #15 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:43pm

the good ole boys wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:32pm:

1993-Airline pilot's strike. Recession (we had to have). Over 10% unemployment. Interest rates over 15%.
2007-Years of surpluses. 22bn in the bank. Historically low interest rates/unemployment.
OP posters lie; facts don't.

Yes as long as you ignore the economic reality, the Liberal position was based on 15 years of the most benign world economic period in over a century compared to very different situations. The world economic crashes of the early 90's and the GFC around 2008 - 2010.

Interest rates in 1993 were about 10%.

The facts you point out do nothing to mitigate the fact that the Liberals had undermined Australia's future economic position with their excessive unafordable cuts.

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Swagman

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Re: How Costello gave us a Budget deficit
Reply #16 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:44pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:26pm:

the good ole boys wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:22pm:

This OP; among the worst cases of historical revisionism I've ever read.

well actually it is very factual and sensible. Giving away the money that would obviously be required in the future was a dumb move and the cause of many of the problems we see today.

We were left requiring the biggest economic boom in a century in order to break square on our bills, obviously when the boom went away we were always going to be in trouble.

Rudd and Gillard presided over an unprecedented commodities boom. Australia enjoyed record high terms of trade and iron ore prices.

They had plenty of time (2 terms and 6 years) to reverse Costello's reforms.

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Dnarever

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Re: How Costello gave us a Budget deficit
Reply #17 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:50pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:39pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:21pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:01pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 12:38pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 10:50am:

...except that he gave us 10 budget surpluses

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/structural%20claytons.jpg

The lefties still can't accept that a Liberal treasurer could produce a string of surpluses and leave office with $22bn in the bank.

.....and the $96 billion dollar overdraft he started with?

Makes the OP a mite lame....

Labor had 6 years to reverse those policies but only managed to empty the bank balance and max out the overdraft again.... Grin

What maxed out the overdraught again was the cash that the Liberals had taken out of future income.

As you are well aware Australia did as well or better than comparable economies in that period and way better then the Abbott / Turnbull governments have since.

Where Labor were fighting for every yard the Liberals came in and immediately started spending like drunken sailors while cutting back their own income.

Financially and economically this Liberal government have been about as dumb as you can get.

You see, that argument falls completely flat when you recall that Labor was in office from 2007 to 2013 and had ample opportunity to undo the "damage" done by Costello. What did Labor do instead? They spent MORE and did nothing - absolutely nothing - with regard to the issues you raise.

It was never going to be simple to remedy and it wasn't always so apparent as to what had happened, Labor in that perios were struggling with the GFC you may remember and it wasn't till the economic situation returned to normal levels that the problem was apparent, we needed to return to boom levels in order to pay the bills but didn't. This is the reason people believed that things would be ok after the GFC. They were wrong as this was the point where the economic gearing bit us on the bottom.

Income was insufficient to pay the bills because the economic boom had ended growth was down the mining income was slowing but the tax cuts etc were still costing the economy income.

Just as today argument that increasing the GST could solve the problem as would increasing income tax, A little less obvious is the fact that not reducing income tax rates in the first place would have seen no problem to need fixing today.

The Tax cuts of the 2000's were based on government income that was not sustainable in the long term.

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stunspore

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Re: How Costello gave us a Budget deficit
Reply #18 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:54pm

"Ample opportunity" Hmmm. I could repeat the arguments that the libs are producing such as "senate lock", etc. Ofc double standards apply when it comes to those libs. After all, aren't they ones complaining about motions not being passed through?

I'm sorry if the labs couldn't undo Costello's harm - clearly was a job too big for them, and apparently a job too big for the current libs as well.

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philperth2010

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Re: How Costello gave us a Budget deficit
Reply #19 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:59pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:38pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:01pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 12:38pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 10:50am:

...except that he gave us 10 budget surpluses

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/structural%20claytons.jpg

The lefties still can't accept that a Liberal treasurer could produce a string of surpluses and leave office with $22bn in the bank.

Yet it is all the spending and concessions put in place during Costello's tenure as treasurer that are being considered for reigning in....The Liberal party appears to be floundering waiting for commodity prices to increase whilst agreeing to open new coal mines in the process....The Conservatives are so last century!!!

Wink

You see, that argument falls completely flat when you recall that Labor was in office from 2007 to 2013 and had ample opportunity to undo the "damage" done by Costello. What did Labor do instead? They spent MORE and did nothing - absolutely nothing - with regard to the issues you raise.

How does Labor being just as self serving as the Coalition detract from my argument....Most of the measures being looked at being wound back where introduced by Peter Costello....IMO both major parties are at fault for pandering to self interest and pork barrelling however both parties are now looking at winding back Peter Costello's unsustainable spending, probably thanks to the Greens who make it an issue!!!

Angry

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: How Costello gave us a Budget deficit
Reply #20 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 2:00pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:39pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:21pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:01pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 12:38pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 10:50am:

...except that he gave us 10 budget surpluses

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/structural%20claytons.jpg

The lefties still can't accept that a Liberal treasurer could produce a string of surpluses and leave office with $22bn in the bank.

.....and the $96 billion dollar overdraft he started with?

Makes the OP a mite lame....

Labor had 6 years to reverse those policies but only managed to empty the bank balance and max out the overdraft again.... Grin

What maxed out the overdraught again was the cash that the Liberals had taken out of future income.

As you are well aware Australia did as well or better than comparable economies in that period and way better then the Abbott / Turnbull governments have since.

Where Labor were fighting for every yard the Liberals came in and immediately started spending like drunken sailors while cutting back their own income.

Financially and economically this Liberal government have been about as dumb as you can get.

You see, that argument falls completely flat when you recall that Labor was in office from 2007 to 2013 and had ample opportunity to undo the "damage" done by Costello. What did Labor do instead? They spent MORE and did nothing - absolutely nothing - with regard to the issues you raise.

Nonsense. The period was during the gfc. Removing incentives for investments during a downturn would've cost Jobs. Labor couldn't undo Costello damage.

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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: How Costello gave us a Budget deficit Reply #21 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 2:05pm No one had a Crystal ball about the GFC. The boneheads at the RB were still increasing interest rates into 2008.
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: How Costello gave us a Budget deficit
Reply #22 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 2:06pm

Bam wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 10:37am:

1. Permanent income tax cuts during the mining boom. $37.6B
2. Capital gains tax discount. $5.8B
3. Removed fuel excise indexation. $5.5B
4. Cash hand-outs for franking credits. $4.6B
5. Superannuation tax cuts. $2.5B

Total. $56.0B. What's the current Budget deficit again? Huh

Peter Costello's five most 'profligate' decisions as treasurer cost the budget $56bn a year

... and that figure is not indexed.... how much more is it in reality today as a proportion of the deficit? (I hasten to add here, for the sake of truth and clarity and to confuse Longy and cods again - a 'deficit' or 'surplus' is a forward estimate of the state of the budget at the end of a specified period..... it is not a hard figure of actual results).....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Saul Goodman Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 132 Gender:	Re: How Costello gave us a Budget deficit Reply #23 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 2:11pm Swagman wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 10:50am: ...except that he gave us 10 budget surpluses I think the mining boom gave us the surpluses, all Bud Abbott had to do was count it coming in before Howhard gave it away in useless non sustainable tax cuts!
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Dnarever

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Re: How Costello gave us a Budget deficit
Reply #24 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 2:21pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:44pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:26pm:

the good ole boys wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 1:22pm:

This OP; among the worst cases of historical revisionism I've ever read.

well actually it is very factual and sensible. Giving away the money that would obviously be required in the future was a dumb move and the cause of many of the problems we see today.

We were left requiring the biggest economic boom in a century in order to break square on our bills, obviously when the boom went away we were always going to be in trouble.

Rudd and Gillard presided over an unprecedented commodities boom. Australia enjoyed record high terms of trade and iron ore prices.

They had plenty of time (2 terms and 6 years) to reverse Costello's reforms.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/Comm%20prices.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/Terms-of-Trade1.jpg

to reverse Costello's reforms.

Not sure that Costello had any reforms. Election target tax cuts are not reform.

What is the point of showing one positive sector when the rest of the economy is in the toilet ?

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20061 Gender:	Re: How Costello gave us a Budget deficit Reply #25 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 2:25pm So many people criticizing the tax cuts they received. Perhaps make a voluntary donation to the ATO.
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Swagman

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Re: How Costello gave us a Budget deficit
Reply #26 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 2:25pm

Saul Goodman wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 2:11pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 10:50am:

...except that he gave us 10 budget surpluses

I think the mining boom gave us the surpluses, all Bud Abbott had to do was count it coming in before Howhard gave it away in useless non sustainable tax cuts!

.....Rudd and Gillard had the best of the commodities boom and didn't manage one "by hell or high water" budget surplus.... Cheesy

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the good ole boys

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Re: How Costello gave us a Budget deficit
Reply #27 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 2:27pm

You stumbled I was tripped. Uni Psych 101. If the ALP EVER f#$ked up it was because of greedy Rupert and Gina and Alan Jones. If the Libs ever f$#ked up it was because of greedy Rupert and Gina and Alan Jones. Here's a thought rusted ons; promote federal Labor by what it's achieved over thd last 20 years. The only achievement I would agree with (apart from some chest thumping speeches) is the home insulation scheme. A genuinely good idea. Ham fisted in execution but a positive achievement nonetheless. As for the rest; pffft.

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Dnarever

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Re: How Costello gave us a Budget deficit
Reply #28 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 2:38pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 2:25pm:

Saul Goodman wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 2:11pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 10:50am:

...except that he gave us 10 budget surpluses

I think the mining boom gave us the surpluses, all Bud Abbott had to do was count it coming in before Howhard gave it away in useless non sustainable tax cuts!

.....Rudd and Gillard had the best of the commodities boom and didn't manage one "by hell or high water" budget surplus.... Cheesy

Gee I wonder if a GFC had any impact at the same time.

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 61317 Here Gender:	Re: How Costello gave us a Budget deficit Reply #29 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 2:40pm lee wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 2:25pm: So many people criticizing the tax cuts they received. Perhaps make a voluntary donation to the ATO. It isn't about liking tax cuts mainly to the well off but about the fact that they were not affordable in the middle to longer term.
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