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Commissioner Not Qualified To Speak On Safety (Read 4064 times)
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Re: Commissioner Not Qualified To Speak On Safety
Reply #15 - Jan 1st, 2016 at 7:46pm
 
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One recommendation includes changes to right-of-entry laws, which allow union officials to enter worksites during suspected safety breaches. Mr Noonan said such changes would be bad for workers.

I wonder how employers would feel if they had OH&S inspectors doing safety audits of their workplaces whenever there's a suspected breach of safety rules? They also have right of entry, and are generally much tougher on safety breaches than union inspectors.
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John Smith
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Re: Commissioner Not Qualified To Speak On Safety
Reply #16 - Jan 1st, 2016 at 7:54pm
 
lee wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 4:57pm:
John Smith wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 3:13pm:
lee wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 3:08pm:
John Smith wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 2:59pm:
everyone can comment  ... especially if it's THEIR safety that's on the line



Dave Noonan is a full time office wonker. Hardly HIS safety.


EVERYONE can comment on OH&S .... or do you think OH&S isn't an issue if you work in an office?


Therefore Heydon can comment on OH&S. But neither are qualified.


Heydon can comment on any OH&S issues in his workplace ... he's certainly not qualified to comment on the runnings on on a building site or a mine
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Dnarever
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Re: Commissioner Not Qualified To Speak On Safety
Reply #17 - Jan 1st, 2016 at 8:39pm
 
lee wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 4:57pm:
John Smith wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 3:13pm:
lee wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 3:08pm:
John Smith wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 2:59pm:
everyone can comment  ... especially if it's THEIR safety that's on the line



Dave Noonan is a full time office wonker. Hardly HIS safety.


EVERYONE can comment on OH&S .... or do you think OH&S isn't an issue if you work in an office?


Therefore Heydon can comment on OH&S. But neither are qualified.


I don't know that making probably unsafe political recommendations as a commissioner in a report is the same thing as making a comment?
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lee
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Re: Commissioner Not Qualified To Speak On Safety
Reply #18 - Jan 1st, 2016 at 8:51pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 7:54pm:
Heydon can comment on any OH&S issues in his workplace ... he's certainly not qualified to comment on the runnings on on a building site or a mine



And as I pointed out, according to his CV - neither is Dave Noonan.
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Re: Commissioner Not Qualified To Speak On Safety
Reply #19 - Jan 1st, 2016 at 8:59pm
 
lee wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 8:51pm:
John Smith wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 7:54pm:
Heydon can comment on any OH&S issues in his workplace ... he's certainly not qualified to comment on the runnings on on a building site or a mine



And as I pointed out, according to his CV - neither is Dave Noonan.


actually, I think he is

Dave has worked for the union for over 25 years. Prior to becoming National Secretary in 2006, he was an organiser and industrial advocate with the CFMEU Victorian Branch, and its antecedent the Building Workers’ Industrial Union (BWIU). Prior to becoming a union official, Dave was a construction worker

he started as a construction worker and then spent the next 25 yrs looking after union members and their safety in the construction industry ... not sure how much experience you want someone to have in a particular field before you call them 'qualified', but for me, 25+ yrs makes him abundantly qualified.
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Our esteemed leader:
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Re: Commissioner Not Qualified To Speak On Safety
Reply #20 - Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:01pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 8:39pm:
I don't know that making probably unsafe political recommendations as a commissioner in a report is the same thing as making a comment?



What are "probably unsafe political recommendations"? Ones that impact on one political party? Is a union a political party?

If you are talking about potentially unsafe legislation, that is a different matter.

I would think that would be handled the Commonwealth Solicitor General. That's why we have them.
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Re: Commissioner Not Qualified To Speak On Safety
Reply #21 - Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:05pm
 
lee wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:01pm:
What are "probably unsafe political recommendations"?



ones that are likely to have an undue influence on those that get to make the laws .... you'll have anti union MP's citing the commissioners recommendations for the next 3 years, and idiots like cods and armpit believing them just because 'the commissioner' said so..
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Our esteemed leader:
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lee
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Re: Commissioner Not Qualified To Speak On Safety
Reply #22 - Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:25pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 8:59pm:
Dave has worked for the union for over 25 years. Prior to becoming National Secretary in 2006, he was an organiser and industrial advocate with the CFMEU Victorian Branch, and its antecedent the Building Workers’ Industrial Union (BWIU). Prior to becoming a union official, Dave was a construction worker

he started as a construction worker and then spent the next 25 yrs looking after union members and their safety in the construction industry ... not sure how much experience you want someone to have in a particular field before you call them 'qualified', but for me, 25+ yrs makes him abundantly qualified.



Nope. There are specific requirements for OH&S. 25 years service just doesn't cut it.
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Re: Commissioner Not Qualified To Speak On Safety
Reply #23 - Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:27pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:05pm:
lee wrote Today at 9:01pm:
What are "probably unsafe political recommendations"?



ones that are likely to have an undue influence on those that get to make the laws



Why would that make them "politically unsafe"?
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Re: Commissioner Not Qualified To Speak On Safety
Reply #24 - Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:37pm
 
lee wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:25pm:
John Smith wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 8:59pm:
Dave has worked for the union for over 25 years. Prior to becoming National Secretary in 2006, he was an organiser and industrial advocate with the CFMEU Victorian Branch, and its antecedent the Building Workers’ Industrial Union (BWIU). Prior to becoming a union official, Dave was a construction worker

he started as a construction worker and then spent the next 25 yrs looking after union members and their safety in the construction industry ... not sure how much experience you want someone to have in a particular field before you call them 'qualified', but for me, 25+ yrs makes him abundantly qualified.



Nope. There are specific requirements for OH&S. 25 years service just doesn't cut it.


And a 6 month tafe course does or even the glorified 4 year uni version of the six month tafe course does ? I assure you on the job experience counts for everything , I work in the industry and you my friend have no furkn idea what you're talking about. Do you think a fresh out tafe uni student much less that furkwit heydon is going to know what I am talking about when I say come and check the outriggers on the franna?
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
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Re: Commissioner Not Qualified To Speak On Safety
Reply #25 - Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:37pm
 
lee wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:27pm:
John Smith wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:05pm:
lee wrote Today at 9:01pm:
What are "probably unsafe political recommendations"?



ones that are likely to have an undue influence on those that get to make the laws



Why would that make them "politically unsafe"?



.. because it places in their hands a 'validation' for what they already want to do.... and thus obviates the democratic process...

You need to catch up - read my assertion on the vast differences between legislation, law and Law....

It is not merely sufficient for an elected body to vote by majority on an issue - the content of that issue must itself pass the test of Law Itself, and the test of Common Justice......

When WILL you all learn?  The NAZIs and Stalinists teach you nothing about legislation and Legality?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Commissioner Not Qualified To Speak On Safety
Reply #26 - Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:42pm
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:37pm:
It is not merely sufficient for an elected body to vote by majority on an issue - the content of that issue must itself pass the test of Law Itself, and the test of Common Justice......



And that is the preserve of the Commonwealth Solicitor General.
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Re: Commissioner Not Qualified To Speak On Safety
Reply #27 - Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:46pm
 
Its time wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:37pm:
And a 6 month tafe course does or even the glorified 4 year uni version of the six month tafe course does ? I assure you on the job experience counts for everything , I work in the industry and you my friend have no furkn idea what you're talking about. Do you think a fresh out tafe uni student much less that furkwit heydon is going to know what I am talking about when I say come and check the outriggers on the franna?



Correct - on the job training is important. Now who has the job? Dave with a few years experience but NO qualifications, or the newly minted OH&S bloke with no experience? Think about it.

Of course the best solution is Dave with a few years experience AND an OH&S qualification.

And you really have no idea of my life experiences.
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Re: Commissioner Not Qualified To Speak On Safety
Reply #28 - Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:54pm
 
lee wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:42pm:
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:37pm:
It is not merely sufficient for an elected body to vote by majority on an issue - the content of that issue must itself pass the test of Law Itself, and the test of Common Justice......



And that is the preserve of the Commonwealth Solicitor General.


Who singularly fails to even suggest that a piece of mooted legislation is suspect, and merely suggests that the government rely on the utter inability of the common person to challenge any such legislation.

You mistake the game of power for the game of reason, decency, justice and Law.

You will not even get a challenge into the appropriate court for under around a quarter of a million... how does Joe or Jo Bloggs challenge legislation?  At the ballot box - where both parties battle for their own version of the same thing, as long as it suits them and not Jo and Joe?

EVERY piece of legislation must be open to challenge for a nominal fee of $25... by any person adversely affected by it.  It is no longer sufficient, based on historical failure of courts, to rely on a court to overturn illegal/UnLawful legislation... or to rely on the forces of law to refuse to accommodate to it. Indeed, the oath of office of the forces of Law forbids such action... thus we are left with the tenuous and diaphanous proposition that the courts will abide by their oath of office and ensure justice for all equally.

History shows us that is not the case, and that the courts fall mos often into the fallacy that they are bound by the same oath as the forces of Law, and must therefore abide by 'law as written', rather than making a valid and independent judgement on the merits of any piece of legislation.  Courts thus fall into the error of considering themselves one aspect of 'the thin blue line' - rather than as the guardians  of Law (the thin black line) itself.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: Commissioner Not Qualified To Speak On Safety
Reply #29 - Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:57pm
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 1st, 2016 at 9:54pm:
Who singularly fails to even suggest that a piece of mooted legislation is suspect, and merely suggests that the government rely on the utter inability of the common person to challenge any such legislation.



Perhaps that's part of the reason we have left leaning judges in the higher courts? Appointed by both parties.
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