Australian Politics Forum - At last - Robert Hughes goes down and out!

greggerypeccary

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Re: At last - Robert Hughes goes down and out!
Reply #135 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 9:37am

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 7:48am:

Aussie wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 7:28pm:

Quote:

Thus, she's innocent in the eyes of the law.

No. Thus, she is innocent. Full stop.

As above @ gregg.

Not proven guilty for lack of concrete evidence does not translate as being found innocent, per se, but only means there is insufficient evidence for a conviction at this present time.

Innocent until proven guilty.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: At last - Robert Hughes goes down and out!
Reply #136 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 9:41am

mariacostel wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 6:52am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 5:35pm:

cods wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 5:28pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 5:19pm:

cods wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 5:14pm:

[quote author=red_baron18 link=1450666334/.. its so routine now to see Australian celebs in court over child abuse...

Uh, no.

you dont agree why am I not surprised....oh well...

Maggie Kirkpatrick almost got caught.....

and of course Rolf wasnt exactly HIGH PROFILE was he??...

well by our standards he was.. but skip that

That's three Australian celebs.

That doesn't even come close to "routine".

If you can name me 30, then I might start to agree with you.

Three - seriously?

Ans Maggie was found not guilty on appeal if I recall so we are down to two.

So cods, where are all the Australian celebs you mentioned?

You still haven't elaborated.

It's unlike you to make a claim, based on little or no evidence, and then run away crying to the mods complaining that the thread has been destroyed.

Maggie isn't guilty of anything, but we'll include her in your list anyway (I don't want to be accused of being uncharitable).

So, we have three. Is that it?

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Kytro

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Re: At last - Robert Hughes goes down and out!
Reply #137 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:14am

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 7:48am:

Not proven guilty for lack of concrete evidence does not translate as being found innocent, per se, but only means there is insufficient evidence for a conviction at this present time.

Technically this applies to all people, accused or not. Innocence is assumed and guilt must proved. There isn't some third category of probably guilty but we can't prove it.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: At last - Robert Hughes goes down and out!
Reply #138 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:15am

Kytro wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:14am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 7:48am:

Not proven guilty for lack of concrete evidence does not translate as being found innocent, per se, but only means there is insufficient evidence for a conviction at this present time.

Technically this applies to all people, accused or not. Innocence is assumed and guilt must proved. There isn't some third category of probably guilty but we can't prove it.

Correct - and the fundamental difference needs to be made clear to the general public and the legal fraternity as well.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Kytro

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Re: At last - Robert Hughes goes down and out!
Reply #139 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:20am

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 8:56am:

Very true, and that is one serious flaw in our legal system - we need findings of 'not proven' and 'innocent' - to do otherwise confuses the issue and no matter the proof, some will always screech 'guilty' unless absolutely told that 'innocent' is the correct term.

Those kinds are called 'yobs'....

In the event of a 'not proven' finding, the issue remains open for either side to renew the allegation upon further proof being found.

Either we have the evidence or we don't. In most Australian states, people can already be tried again if there is fresh and compelling evidence.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: At last - Robert Hughes goes down and out!
Reply #140 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:48am

Black Orchid wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 6:30pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 6:18pm:

One...he put her hand on his dick. Well, sorry.....it would not bother me one bit, no matter my age, if some woman did a similar thing with my hand

What a disgusting post excusing paedophilia.

It's typical of Aussie. Situation "normal" Shocked

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mariacostel

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Re: At last - Robert Hughes goes down and out!
Reply #141 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:54am

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 7:48am:

Aussie wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 7:28pm:

Quote:

Thus, she's innocent in the eyes of the law.

No. Thus, she is innocent. Full stop.

As above @ gregg.

Not proven guilty for lack of concrete evidence does not translate as being found innocent, per se, but only means there is insufficient evidence for a conviction at this present time.

AS is common with you, you miss the point. NO ONE is ever found innocent. They are found NOT GUILTY which is what she got.

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mariacostel

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Re: At last - Robert Hughes goes down and out!
Reply #142 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:55am

Kytro wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:20am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 8:56am:

Very true, and that is one serious flaw in our legal system - we need findings of 'not proven' and 'innocent' - to do otherwise confuses the issue and no matter the proof, some will always screech 'guilty' unless absolutely told that 'innocent' is the correct term.

Those kinds are called 'yobs'....

In the event of a 'not proven' finding, the issue remains open for either side to renew the allegation upon further proof being found.

Either we have the evidence or we don't. In most Australian states, people can already be tried again if there is fresh and compelling evidence.

Not on the same charge they can't. Double jeopardy prevents being retried for the same crime twice. Appeals however can be heard again if there is fresh and compelling evidence.

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mariacostel

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Re: At last - Robert Hughes goes down and out!
Reply #143 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:11pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 8:56am:

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 7:48am:

Aussie wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 7:28pm:

Quote:

Thus, she's innocent in the eyes of the law.

No. Thus, she is innocent. Full stop.

As above @ gregg.

Not proven guilty for lack of concrete evidence does not translate as being found innocent, per se, but only means there is insufficient evidence for a conviction at this present time.

Very true, and that is one serious flaw in our legal system - we need findings of 'not proven' and 'innocent' - to do otherwise confuses the issue and no matter the proof, some will always screech 'guilty' unless absolutely told that 'innocent' is the correct term.

Those kinds are called 'yobs'....

In the event of a 'not proven' finding, the issue remains open for either side to renew the allegation upon further proof being found.

Dreadful idea. it virtually BEGS malicious prosecution where the state keeps trying year in year out on the same charge. The reason we have double jeopardy is to eliminate that. If the state wants to prosecute it gets ONE CHANCE to do so and rightly so.

We already have a 'finding of innocent'. It is the one you come to trial already with - presumption of innocence.

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: At last - Robert Hughes goes down and out! Reply #144 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:18pm mariacostel wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:55am: [ Not on the same charge they can't. Double jeopardy prevents being retried for the same crime twice. . Wrong. Varies state by state. Some states have effectively abolished double jeopardy law for some crimes.
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mariacostel

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Re: At last - Robert Hughes goes down and out!
Reply #145 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:58pm

ian wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:18pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:55am:

[
Not on the same charge they can't. Double jeopardy prevents being retried for the same crime twice. .

Wrong. Varies state by state. Some states have effectively abolished double jeopardy law for some crimes.

Care to prove that?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: At last - Robert Hughes goes down and out!
Reply #146 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 1:01pm

mariacostel wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:58pm:

ian wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:18pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:55am:

[
Not on the same charge they can't. Double jeopardy prevents being retried for the same crime twice. .

Wrong. Varies state by state. Some states have effectively abolished double jeopardy law for some crimes.

Care to prove that?

I heard something about QLD removing double jeopardy laws.

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mariacostel

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Re: At last - Robert Hughes goes down and out!
Reply #147 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 3:03pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 1:01pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:58pm:

ian wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:18pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:55am:

[
Not on the same charge they can't. Double jeopardy prevents being retried for the same crime twice. .

Wrong. Varies state by state. Some states have effectively abolished double jeopardy law for some crimes.

Care to prove that?

I heard something about QLD removing double jeopardy laws.

I would like some facts and it is really a terrible idea. Double Jeopardy protects the innocent so naturally QLD would think about removing it.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: At last - Robert Hughes goes down and out!
Reply #148 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 3:05pm

mariacostel wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 3:03pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 1:01pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:58pm:

ian wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:18pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:55am:

[
Not on the same charge they can't. Double jeopardy prevents being retried for the same crime twice. .

Wrong. Varies state by state. Some states have effectively abolished double jeopardy law for some crimes.

Care to prove that?

I heard something about QLD removing double jeopardy laws.

I would like some facts and it is really a terrible idea. Double Jeopardy protects the innocent so naturally QLD would think about removing it.

Not sure what happened after this:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/queensland-government-to-remove-doubl...

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mariacostel

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Re: At last - Robert Hughes goes down and out!
Reply #149 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 3:09pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 3:05pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 3:03pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 1:01pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:58pm:

ian wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:18pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:55am:

[
Not on the same charge they can't. Double jeopardy prevents being retried for the same crime twice. .

Wrong. Varies state by state. Some states have effectively abolished double jeopardy law for some crimes.

Care to prove that?

I heard something about QLD removing double jeopardy laws.

I would like some facts and it is really a terrible idea. Double Jeopardy protects the innocent so naturally QLD would think about removing it.

Not sure what happened after this:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/queensland-government-to-remove-doubl...

It would disturb me to see genuine double jeopardy removed. It is one of the prime protections against malicious prosecution - which is not unheard of.

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