Australian Politics Forum - How do you define liberty?

Lafayette

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #75 - Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 8:29am

mariacostel wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 8:00am:

Side question: do you think being free brings happiness? Do you think happiness even requires freedom?

Some people are content with being lapdogs and find happiness in other diversions, such as reality TV, drinking and games.

I've lived in Absolute Monarchies, Tyrannical Dictatorships and even Constitutional Monarchies like Australia where I was born and raised and there is no way that I could stand the lack of liberty in Australia, which is why I moved to the US years ago. Liberty is respected here a great deal more and I love it.

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Aussie

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #76 - Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 10:47am

mariacostel wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 7:59am:

Aussie wrote on Dec 21^st, 2015 at 5:56pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 21^st, 2015 at 5:51pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 21^st, 2015 at 5:47pm:

Lafayette wrote on Dec 21^st, 2015 at 5:38pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 21^st, 2015 at 5:29pm:

Gee, how original. Something like live and let live, or is it more complicated according to what course you are doing at Uni?

I'm 30 years old and have been out of uni for quite some time.

Being dismissive doesn't help your case given the fact that the quote that I posted was from one of the greatest thinkers of the last 500 years. He was incredibly educated.

Guess what? I don't care. I do my own thinking. Is that okay within this thing called 'liberty.'

A clever man would listen to others. Of course, you are not one of those and considers his own opinions superior to others. No wonder you joined PUP. It is their mantra... and look how well that worked out!

Well, I guess you'll just have to live with the fact that I have had a better education than you, and have a greater intellect. Don't worry, though, melielongtime suffered the same ignomy. Perhaps you could do age two, together? Just a thought.

There is little evidence to support any claim of over-intelligence by you. You really do sound and post like a typical taxi driver.

The evidence is there and everyone can see it. How embarrassing it must be for you to have to face the fact that even a 'taxi driver' has a better education, vocabulary and intellect than thee.

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Bias_2012

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #77 - Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 12:01pm

Lafayette wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 8:29am:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 8:00am:

Side question: do you think being free brings happiness? Do you think happiness even requires freedom?

Some people are content with being lapdogs and find happiness in other diversions, such as reality TV, drinking and games.

I've lived in Absolute Monarchies, Tyrannical Dictatorships and even Constitutional Monarchies like Australia where I was born and raised and there is no way that I could stand the lack of liberty in Australia, which is why I moved to the US years ago. Liberty is respected here a great deal more and I love it.

Australia won't have a US style liberty till it breaks away from mother England, the Crown and the Libs and Labs. A whole new independent Constitution is required to bring Australia into the 21st century

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Lafayette

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #78 - Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 12:17pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 12:01pm:

Australia won't have a US style liberty till it breaks away from mother England, the Crown and the Libs and Labs. A whole new independent Constitution is required to bring Australia into the 21st century

I don't even think that will do it. Australians don't know poo about liberty. They take everything as a privilege and are so apathetic because they've never had to fight for anything in their lives.

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Bias_2012

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #79 - Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 12:59pm

Lafayette wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 12:17pm:

They take everything as a privilege and are so apathetic because they've never had to fight for anything in their lives.

Possibly but ...

Queen Elizabeth II said we can do what we like down here re: republic. However we haven't taken advantage of that kindness yet. We could still be in momentum of the "Convict" mentality, the Libs and Labs are certainly trying to keep us in that tyrannical sphere

But if you were born and bred in OZ, how did you come to switch from OZ "apathy" to US liberty with the Democrats in power there ? What particular liberties were you looking for ?

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Lafayette

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #80 - Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 1:20pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 12:59pm:

Possibly but ...

Queen Elizabeth II said we can do what we like down here re: republic. However we haven't taken advantage of that kindness yet. We could still be in momentum of the "Convict" mentality, the Libs and Labs are certainly trying to keep us in that tyrannical sphere

Oh she said we could did she? Oh lucky us that her royal highness gave us permission to be in charge of our own affairs.
Roll Eyes

Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 12:59pm:

But if you were born and bred in OZ, how did you come to switch from OZ "apathy" to US liberty with the Democrats in power there ? What particular liberties were you looking for ?

It's hard to say how I came to the conclusion. I just felt that something was wrong with both the system of government in Australia and the attitude of the people..

What rights did I want respected all of them but here was the best option for that?
-The right to read what I want without having to defend myself in court on terrorism charges because the documents are banned.
-The right not to be forced to answer questions by ASIO under the order of a judge.
- The right to be able to defend myself and have the means to do so, ie the right to keep and bear arms.
- The right to form a militia
- The right to use force against the government, if necessary
- The right to build a mosque or school on my own damn property without a bunch of bigoted jerks infiltrating the city council and preventing me from doing so under the guise of 'parking' or 'increased traffic' when the real reason is because they don't want a mosque there.

There's more to it but that's just to name a few.

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mariacostel

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #81 - Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 3:27pm

Lafayette wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 8:29am:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 8:00am:

Side question: do you think being free brings happiness? Do you think happiness even requires freedom?

Some people are content with being lapdogs and find happiness in other diversions, such as reality TV, drinking and games.

I've lived in Absolute Monarchies, Tyrannical Dictatorships and even Constitutional Monarchies like Australia where I was born and raised and there is no way that I could stand the lack of liberty in Australia, which is why I moved to the US years ago. Liberty is respected here a great deal more and I love it.

Let me guess.... Guns, right? That is your definition of liberty? I guess this because I struggle to see what liberties USA offers you that is not available here.

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mariacostel

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #82 - Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 3:29pm

Lafayette wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 1:20pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 12:59pm:

Possibly but ...

Queen Elizabeth II said we can do what we like down here re: republic. However we haven't taken advantage of that kindness yet. We could still be in momentum of the "Convict" mentality, the Libs and Labs are certainly trying to keep us in that tyrannical sphere

Oh she said we could did she? Oh lucky us that her royal highness gave us permission to be in charge of our own affairs.
Roll Eyes

Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 12:59pm:

But if you were born and bred in OZ, how did you come to switch from OZ "apathy" to US liberty with the Democrats in power there ? What particular liberties were you looking for ?

It's hard to say how I came to the conclusion. I just felt that something was wrong with both the system of government in Australia and the attitude of the people..

What rights did I want respected all of them but here was the best option for that?
-The right to read what I want without having to defend myself in court on terrorism charges because the documents are banned.
-The right not to be forced to answer questions by ASIO under the order of a judge.
- The right to be able to defend myself and have the means to do so, ie the right to keep and bear arms.
- The right to form a militia
- The right to use force against the government, if necessary
- The right to build a mosque or school on my own damn property without a bunch of bigoted jerks infiltrating the city council and preventing me from doing so under the guise of 'parking' or 'increased traffic' when the real reason is because they don't want a mosque there.

There's more to it but that's just to name a few.

And there it is folks.... GUNS

So predictable and so, so wrong.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39694 Gender:	Re: How do you define liberty? Reply #83 - Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 3:35pm Quote: So predictable and so, so wrong. Yet.....you didn't.
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Lafayette Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 316 Gender:	Re: How do you define liberty? Reply #84 - Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 3:37pm mariacostel wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 3:29pm: And there it is folks.... GUNS So predictable and so, so wrong. Is that all you read out of what I wrote? I mean I mentioned several things.
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39694 Gender:	Re: How do you define liberty? Reply #85 - Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 3:39pm Lafayette wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 3:37pm: mariacostel wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 3:29pm: And there it is folks.... GUNS So predictable and so, so wrong. Is that all you read out of what I wrote? I mean I mentioned several things. Yeas....but it is now obvious where you were taking this. Almost to anarchy.
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Lafayette Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 316 Gender:	Re: How do you define liberty? Reply #86 - Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 3:46pm Aussie wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 3:39pm: Yeas....but it is now obvious where you were taking this. Almost to anarchy. Oh really? How close to anarchy exactly?
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mariacostel

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #87 - Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 3:49pm

Lafayette wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 3:37pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 3:29pm:

And there it is folks.... GUNS

So predictable and so, so wrong.

Is that all you read out of what I wrote? I mean I mentioned several things.

Yes, private militia and anarchy.

Was there anything else?

Do you think you shoule be able to have helicopter gunships and cruise missiles?

Whenever I read you 'freedom w a n k e r s', it's always guns, guns and explosives.

PS perhaps you havent heard of the Patriot Act. It is far more draconian than anything here in Oz.

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Lafayette

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #88 - Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 4:11pm

mariacostel wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 3:49pm:

Yes, private militia and anarchy.

Was there anything else?

Do you think you shoule be able to have helicopter gunships and cruise missiles?

Whenever I read you 'freedom w a n k e r s', it's always guns, guns and explosives.

PS perhaps you havent heard of the Patriot Act. It is far more draconian than anything here in Oz.

1. I've read the Patriot Act, it isn't as bad as Australian laws. I gave you an example of one just before.
2. The role of a militia is not to promote anarchy, but for self defense. I believe in having a government that protects the rights of the people to life, liberty and justly acquired property. So that is very far from anarchism.
3. Sure they should be able to have helicopter gunships, but the question is whether or not the gunships should be able to be armed. In that case I believe not because it isn't a light infantry weapon that one can bear. Same with cruise missiles.
4. As for there being anything else, didn't you read them? I'm pretty sure I mentioned several things there. Why only focus on guns?

I believe that we have a right to keep and bear arms to protect ourselves against criminals, tyrants and foreign governments that wish to usurp our rights.

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mariacostel

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #89 - Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 4:18pm

Lafayette wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 4:11pm:

mariacostel wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2015 at 3:49pm:

Yes, private militia and anarchy.

Was there anything else?

Do you think you shoule be able to have helicopter gunships and cruise missiles?

Whenever I read you 'freedom w a n k e r s', it's always guns, guns and explosives.

PS perhaps you havent heard of the Patriot Act. It is far more draconian than anything here in Oz.

1. I've read the Patriot Act, it isn't as bad as Australian laws. I gave you an example of one just before.
2. The role of a militia is not to promote anarchy, but for self defense. I believe in having a government that protects the rights of the people to life, liberty and justly acquired property. So that is very far from anarchism.
3. Sure they should be able to have helicopter gunships, but the question is whether or not the gunships should be able to be armed. In that case I believe not because it isn't a light infantry weapon that one can bear. Same with cruise missiles.
4. As for there being anything else, didn't you read them? I'm pretty sure I mentioned several things there. Why only focus on guns?

I believe that we have a right to keep and bear arms to protect ourselves against criminals, tyrants and foreign governments that wish to usurp our rights.

Because it was more than enough to recognise you as a one-toothed hokey, probably married to your sister and wishing for the old days of slavery.

Our idea of freedom involves the ABSENCE of guns. Not how many people have been killed in mass-shootings in the last 19 years? NONE. Try telling that to the 900,000 people killed by guns in USA.

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