Australian Politics Forum - How do you define liberty?

Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: How do you define liberty? Reply #480 - Dec 29^th, 2015 at 11:47am Not sure who your "get an education" was aimed at, but I took the liberty to fix the links for you.
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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: How do you define liberty? Reply #481 - Dec 29^th, 2015 at 11:48am Not sure who your "get an education" was aimed at, but I took the liberty to fix the links for you. ok, I try a second time...
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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: How do you define liberty? Reply #482 - Dec 29^th, 2015 at 11:53am Mr Carlin was one awesome thinker, speaker and a damn funny comic with it all... A sad loss his passing...
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Bias_2012 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10766 Gender:	Re: How do you define liberty? Reply #483 - Dec 29^th, 2015 at 12:28pm Yes George was awesome, a great guy More education .... watch for apathy in the cycle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts5Sg8YCxP0
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Aussie

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #484 - Dec 29^th, 2015 at 1:08pm

mothra wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 6:11pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 3:00pm:

mothra wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 2:58pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 2:54pm:

Lafayette wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 2:48pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 2:43pm:

Lafayette wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 2:32pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 1:19pm:

Quote:

We are born with rights

Isn't it more accurate to say that we were born in a Country whose Laws bestow upon its citizens certain rights, responsibilities and obligations?

No, if a state has to legislate laws to give you something, it is not a right. You are born with rights and that is what makes them inalienable. The state can't remove them.

Just like if the state passed a law saying that all Jews must be killed. Does that mean that Jews no longer have the right to life? What about a law stating that all Africans must be enslaved, does that mean that Africans then lose their right to liberty?

That's the problem with Australians, they generally don't understand the concept of rights because they've never had to fight for them. Everything is a privilege to you guys.

List these rights I was born with please? And also tell me if someone born in (say) Syria today also has them.

The rights to life, liberty and justly acquired property. Yes, someone in Syria born today has those rights.

These are not your only rights, but all other rights are connected to these three. Essentially it is that you have the right to do as you please, so long as you don't infringe on the equal rights of another person.

Oh so cute and motherly. List the rights I was born with, one by one, specifically. For example:

1. Free ice cream every second Sunday.......
2 and on. Etc etc etc etc.........

All listed here:

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

Those are man created, and totally artificial. I want the list of those which were created otherwise.

There are none otherwise created.

Lafayette will claim otherwise.

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Phemanderac

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #485 - Dec 30^th, 2015 at 4:01pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Dec 29^th, 2015 at 12:28pm:

Yes George was awesome, a great guy

More education .... watch for apathy in the cycle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts5Sg8YCxP0

Thanks for that link - yep indeed it was very interesting, I have seen similar theories previously.

Without going on at length though, the thing about patterns is that once we recognise a pattern we (particularly our species it seems) are capable of changing said pattern...

Clearly, history would seem to indicate that we chose not to change the patterns, or, perhaps not enough people are aware of the patterns we find ourselves in. That would then come down to who does the pattern serve the most if it never changes - I think there is a hint in that as to why this "pattern" has been so consistent with the rise and fall of civilisations...

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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longweekend58

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #486 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 5:08pm

Lafayette wrote on Dec 27^th, 2015 at 9:59pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 27^th, 2015 at 9:55pm:

So......it seems you agree, this right is not 'God' given, yeas?

That depends on whether or not you believe in God. A person that believes in God may believe that the Creator endows us all with our rights.

Someone that doesn't believe in a creator or god will say that it isn't God, but it is just because we are born with these rights simply by virtue of being human.

how the hell is it a basic born-with right to carry a gun? at least it is obvious you will die by gunfire before too long. you are obviously masturbating about shooting someone so they will either get you first or the cops will shortly after. either wya problem solved.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #487 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 5:19pm

mothra wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 1:20pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 1:19pm:

Quote:

We are born with rights

Isn't it more accurate to say that we were born in a Country whose Laws bestow upon its citizens certain rights, responsibilities and obligations?

No. There are International human rights.

As i said, the more important question is whether those rights are enforced or compromised.

Rubbish. there are v ery few truly inalienable human rights. very few. the rest are privileges a society bestows upon its inhabitants

the right to bear arms is not an actual right but a privilege the USA insanely grants its murderous and equally stupid inhabitants.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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mothra

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #488 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 5:25pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 5:19pm:

mothra wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 1:20pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 1:19pm:

Quote:

We are born with rights

Isn't it more accurate to say that we were born in a Country whose Laws bestow upon its citizens certain rights, responsibilities and obligations?

No. There are International human rights.

As i said, the more important question is whether those rights are enforced or compromised.

Rubbish. there are v ery few truly inalienable human rights. very few. the rest are privileges a society bestows upon its inhabitants

the right to bear arms is not an actual right but a privilege the USA insanely grants its murderous and equally stupid inhabitants.

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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longweekend58

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #489 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:24pm

mothra wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 5:25pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 5:19pm:

mothra wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 1:20pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 1:19pm:

Quote:

We are born with rights

Isn't it more accurate to say that we were born in a Country whose Laws bestow upon its citizens certain rights, responsibilities and obligations?

No. There are International human rights.

As i said, the more important question is whether those rights are enforced or compromised.

Rubbish. there are v ery few truly inalienable human rights. very few. the rest are privileges a society bestows upon its inhabitants

the right to bear arms is not an actual right but a privilege the USA insanely grants its murderous and equally stupid inhabitants.

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

only you would be stupid enough to think that the UN is the last word on ANY topic, never mind human rights when most of its members sign such declarations while torturing their own citizens.

ever considered actual thinking?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: How do you define liberty? Reply #490 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:27pm The only right you have in this world is to claim your own death. Nothing else. Even thern, that can sometimes be taken from you.
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mothra

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #491 - Dec 31^st, 2015 at 8:28pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 7:24pm:

mothra wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 5:25pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 5:19pm:

mothra wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 1:20pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 1:19pm:

Quote:

We are born with rights

Isn't it more accurate to say that we were born in a Country whose Laws bestow upon its citizens certain rights, responsibilities and obligations?

No. There are International human rights.

As i said, the more important question is whether those rights are enforced or compromised.

Rubbish. there are v ery few truly inalienable human rights. very few. the rest are privileges a society bestows upon its inhabitants

the right to bear arms is not an actual right but a privilege the USA insanely grants its murderous and equally stupid inhabitants.

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

only you would be stupid enough to think that the UN is the last word on ANY topic, never mind human rights when most of its members sign such declarations while torturing their own citizens.

ever considered actual thinking?

As i have said repeatedly on this thread, the rights are there. It comes down to whether or not they are enforced or not.

A simple concept. I know you are a simple thinker but you should, if you try, be able to get your head around it.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #492 - Jan 1^st, 2016 at 9:54am

mothra wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 5:25pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 31^st, 2015 at 5:19pm:

mothra wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 1:20pm:

Aussie wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 1:19pm:

Quote:

We are born with rights

Isn't it more accurate to say that we were born in a Country whose Laws bestow upon its citizens certain rights, responsibilities and obligations?

No. There are International human rights.

As i said, the more important question is whether those rights are enforced or compromised.

Rubbish. there are v ery few truly inalienable human rights. very few. the rest are privileges a society bestows upon its inhabitants

the right to bear arms is not an actual right but a privilege the USA insanely grants its murderous and equally stupid inhabitants.

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

13 countries with Islam as the state religion have the death penalty for atheists, a clear violation of Article 18.

The death penalty for atheists shows Islam is not compatible with human rights.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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freediver

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At my desk.

Re: How do you define liberty?
Reply #493 - Jan 2^nd, 2016 at 3:09pm

Lafayette wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 4:48pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 3:25pm:

Quote:

Them not being effective is a side note.

You brought it up. Every American gun nut we have on here does, like clockwork. "Gun laws don't work because criminals will get one anyway" and 100 other permutations. In fact it took about 20 pages for you to admit you don't care about the truth and that it is really about rights. Gun nuts go to extraordinary lengths, and make themselves look like idiots in the process, to argue that gun laws are ineffective.

Of course, we have established that they are effective. But the truth does not matter to you right?

Quote:

Ultimately even if banning guns ended in all crime altogether I'd still fight to keep them because their purpose is also to defend our liberty.

Would you still lie about the effectiveness of gun laws then fall back on your justification that you don't care because it is about human rights anyway?

When are you going to explain what you mean by explosives, chemical weapons and dirty nukes being neither conventional nor unconventional weapons and therefor not subject to you odd ideas on human gun rights? If you have only just realised how idiotic this sounds, you should take it back, otherwise I will keep asking you about it.

1. Gun control laws are really only truly effective at preventing law abiding citizens from being able to defend themselves.
2. New York, Chicago and other states within the US, as well as Mexico and other nations prove that gun control in itself does not solve the problem and are thus ineffective.
3. I haven't lied. Chicago, New York and Mexico prove gun control is not very effective.
4. I never stated that high explosives shouldn't be accessible to the public. Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear weapons however would not be covered under the 2nd Amendment because they are neither conventional nor unconventional weapons that would be used to ensure the state remain free from tyranny.

How do you measure the effectiveness of gun laws?

Do you recall that I have asked you a dozen times already what that "neither conventional nor unconventional weapons" bit means? Are you having trouble keeping up? What sort of weapons are they?

I suggest thinking for yourself rather than copying and pasting idiotic propaganda from the NRA website.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: How do you define liberty? Reply #494 - Jan 3^rd, 2016 at 8:08am another 3 killed by guns in a domestic dispute in the US overnight. in australia it would have been a fist fight and no one killed.
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