The point you appear to miss is that contrary to what you dribbled (ie, "criminals don't care and will stay armed") our gun laws do actually disarm criminals.

Can you acknowledge this, or are you only programmed to parrot a slightly different version of the propaganda? I don't think I have ever succeeded in getting a gun nut to acknowledge this point.

Also, you never explained how you define liberty or what you mean by Americans respecting liberty. Does liberty mean the right to bear arms?

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 9:27am:

Australia is its own continent, it has strict border controls yet illegal firearms still do get into the country.

Let me put it this way, prisons, where everything is controlled, still have illegal drugs, weapons and electonics coming into them despite the level of control. So how much control do you think you'll need to put on a society to stop guns from coming into the country and are you willing to live in a country that infringes on your freedom that much?

But let's actually assume that you could magically prevent every person in the country from having a firearm. Will that make society safer? Or less safe? Because what I see occurring is criminals not only using other weapons that are available, but also using their size and numbers to victimize people.

So what are you going to tell a 5ft 50kg woman to do when she is going to be raped by a guy that's 6'2 100kg and full of muscle? To use her keys? Give me a break.. You hope to deny innocent people the means to be able to defend their lives.

As for how firearms help to protect liberty, they act as a counterbalance to be power of government. Should the government decide to infringe on the people's rights, the people will be able to defend themselves.

But I don't suspect an Australian would be able to understand that because generally Australians don't know anything about rights. They treat them all like privileges and are not prepared to die to protect their rights.

What a stupid argument. Any attacker with half a brain could easily attack and restrain a woman half their size long before they fished through their handbag for their gun.

At least TRY and come up with credible scenarios.

Woman hiding with kids shoots intruder

LOGANVILLE, Ga. —

A woman hiding in her attic with children shot an intruder multiple times before fleeing to safety Friday.

The incident happened at a home on Henderson Ridge Lane in Loganville around 1 p.m. The woman was working in an upstairs office when she spotted a strange man outside a window, according to Walton County Sheriff Joe Chapman. He said she took her 9-year-old twins to a crawlspace before the man broke in using a crowbar.

But the man eventually found the family.

"The perpetrator opens that door. Of course, at that time he's staring at her, her two children and a .38 revolver," Chapman told Channel 2’s Kerry Kavanaugh.

The woman then shot him five times, but he survived, Chapman said. He said the woman ran out of bullets but threatened to shoot the intruder if he moved.

"She's standing over him, and she realizes she's fired all six rounds. And the guy's telling her to quit shooting," Chapman said.

The woman ran to a neighbor's home with her children. The intruder attempted to flee in his car but crashed into a wooded area and collapsed in a nearby driveway, Chapman said.

Deputies arrested 32-year-old Atlanta resident Paul Slater in connection with the crime. Chapman said they found him on the ground saying, "Help me. I'm close to dying." Slater was taken to Gwinnett Medical Center for treatment.  Chapman said Slater was shot in the face and neck.

In February, Slater was arrested on simple battery charges, according to the Gwinnett County Sheriff's Office. He has been arrested six other times in the county since 2008.

Kavanaugh was the first reporter at the scene as deputies investigated. The victim's husband told Kavanaugh he's proud of his wife. He was on the phone with her as the intruder broke in.

"My wife is a hero. She protected her kids. She did what she was supposed to do as responsible, prepared gun owner," Donnie Herman said.

He said he's thankful for his family's safety.

"Her life is saved, and her kids' life is saved, and that's all I'd like to say," Herman said.

Channel 2’s Amy Napier Viteri learned from Chapman late Friday night that slater has been placed on a ventilator and suffers from punctured lungs, a punctured liver and a punctured stomach.
Source: WSBTV dot com

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 7:24am:


73 huh? in 30 years or around 2 a year?

Why would you be so gullible as to swallow that nonsense? Seriously, have you not read the news this year? There have been 400 mass shootings this year alone.

school shootings alone are more than two a year.

But thank you for demonstrating what is the thinking of a gun-nut.  NOTHING AT ALL.

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 9:50am:

Australia is its own continent, it has strict border controls yet illegal firearms still do get into the country.

Let me put it this way, prisons, where everything is controlled, still have illegal drugs, weapons and electonics coming into them despite the level of control. So how much control do you think you'll need to put on a society to stop guns from coming into the country and are you willing to live in a country that infringes on your freedom that much?

But let's actually assume that you could magically prevent every person in the country from having a firearm. Will that make society safer? Or less safe? Because what I see occurring is criminals not only using other weapons that are available, but also using their size and numbers to victimize people.

So what are you going to tell a 5ft 50kg woman to do when she is going to be raped by a guy that's 6'2 100kg and full of muscle? To use her keys? Give me a break.. You hope to deny innocent people the means to be able to defend their lives.

As for how firearms help to protect liberty, they act as a counterbalance to be power of government. Should the government decide to infringe on the people's rights, the people will be able to defend themselves.

But I don't suspect an Australian would be able to understand that because generally Australians don't know anything about rights. They treat them all like privileges and are not prepared to die to protect their rights.

As for how I define rightful liberty. I agree with Jefferson's definition.
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 7:46pm:


Tell me Baron, what price should we pay to save 15-30 people each year? How about we consult their families - see what they think?