Australian Politics Forum - "Same as it ever was"

random

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"Same as it ever was"
Dec 18^th, 2015 at 7:43pm

Just joined. I came here because it was appeared more 'Australian'.

Some of the posts are almost word for word the same as many other climate related threads in some other forums, between what look like big energy shills and those who care about others. Seriously it's freaky.

Makes me concerned that there isn't a single climate related forum on the planet that has not been infiltrated.

Same as it ever was ...

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: "Same as it ever was" Reply #1 - Dec 18^th, 2015 at 7:49pm Better here than the JoNova blog! Fossil fuel interests have just adopted the tobacco industry tactics.
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random

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Re: "Same as it ever was"
Reply #2 - Dec 18^th, 2015 at 8:10pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 18^th, 2015 at 7:49pm:

Better here than the JoNova blog! Grin

Fossil fuel interests have just adopted the tobacco industry tactics.

Just? That was some time ago seems to me. The Heartland Institute saw to that. Although that appears to be changing very quickly. They are not going to give up any time soon, sadly.

But sometimes I feel sad for the shills as has been discussed in another thread here. Then I wake up.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: "Same as it ever was" Reply #3 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 4:04am Sorry, I meant “just” as in adopt a ready made strategy, not “just” as in “just this week.”
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John_Taverner

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Re: "Same as it ever was"
Reply #4 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 2:51pm

I don't think that any of the posters are here on behalf of Big Oil or Big Coal. It's just the mainstream media that has been infiltrated.
If you never went to school,or never had any formal education in science, some of the views expressed by the likes of Andrew Bolt and Co. are quite seductive, because they don't involve thinking too much.

Some people can get quite passionate about it, even though they wouldn't get so passionate about other subjects, such as Neurosurgery or Quantum Mechanics, both of which also require a significant time investment in order to reach a broad understanding of the subject.

- but when you mention Climate Change, the reaction can be literally cocoa-spilling in its magnitude.

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Re: "Same as it ever was"
Reply #5 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 9:41pm

John_Taverner wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 2:51pm:

I don't think that any of the posters are here on behalf of Big Oil or Big Coal. It's just the mainstream media that has been infiltrated.
If you never went to school,or never had any formal education in science, some of the views expressed by the likes of Andrew Bolt and Co. are quite seductive, because they don't involve thinking too much.

Some people can get quite passionate about it, even though they wouldn't get so passionate about other subjects, such as Neurosurgery or Quantum Mechanics, both of which also require a significant time investment in order to reach a broad understanding of the subject.

- but when you mention Climate Change, the reaction can be literally cocoa-spilling in its magnitude.

I'm not convinced. If you look into the relationships and sheer number of small to large organisations setup to push the Big Energy agenda (like I have) you may at least wonder.

Exhibit A: Carbon Sense Coalition.

One man website in the Brisbane hinterland,

Attends Heartland Institute Meetings in the US
Director of Stanhope Coal.

Coincidence?

The reach of the energy lobby is longer than you think. They are here.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21599 Gender:	Re: "Same as it ever was" Reply #6 - Dec 19^th, 2015 at 10:02pm random wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 9:41pm: Exhibit A: Carbon Sense Coalition. Exhibit B - John Cook, cartoonist, Skeptical Science webmaster.
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random Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2637 Gender:	Re: "Same as it ever was" Reply #7 - Dec 20^th, 2015 at 7:16am So if Big Energy is paying for Carbon Sense, who is paying for John Cook? No quite as well connected as say ... JoNova.
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John_Taverner

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Re: "Same as it ever was"
Reply #8 - Dec 20^th, 2015 at 7:53am

random wrote on Dec 19^th, 2015 at 9:41pm:

Exhibit A: Carbon Sense Coalition.

One man website in the Brisbane hinterland,

Attends Heartland Institute Meetings in the US
Director of Stanhope Coal.

Coincidence?

The reach of the energy lobby is longer than you think. They are here.

OK, some of the coal industry is still involved. Gina Rinehart is a classic in the way she messes with the media. but the multinationals such as Anglo Coal, XStrata and Rio have pulled their heads in.

I think the major contributors are small to medium businesses and their business associations.

Talking about John Cook in the same vein is laughable when you look at the profits involved with Big Energy.

But is there paid propaganda by the renewable energy sector? Of course there is. You'd have to be naive to believe otherwise.

The pressure against coal mining will come from local government. It has already started.

http://southburnett.com.au/news2/2015/01/council-bans-coal-mining-csg/

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random Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2637 Gender:	Re: "Same as it ever was" Reply #9 - Dec 20^th, 2015 at 8:44am Interesting comment. Do you know that the larger companies "have pulled their heads in"? Maybe they have altered how they do it? Not saying they have, I just don't see evidence for it either way. The denial industry has not switched off ... yet.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21599 Gender:	Re: "Same as it ever was" Reply #10 - Dec 20^th, 2015 at 10:55am "Evil Oil" has been fighting the good fight against "Evil Coal", Except where companies have feet in both troughs.
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lee

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Re: "Same as it ever was"
Reply #11 - Dec 20^th, 2015 at 10:59am

John_Taverner wrote on Dec 20^th, 2015 at 7:53am:

Talking about John Cook in the same vein is laughable when you look at the profits involved with Big Energy.

Compared to the minuscule funding by government grants? Siphon off a bit to a "worthy" comrade?

Have you read the story of Prof. Shukla? $63m in government funding. Put into a private company. Wife and daughter on the board.

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random

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Re: "Same as it ever was"
Reply #12 - Dec 20^th, 2015 at 11:50am

Have you read the story about the Australian tax payers paying for the fuel used by coal miners?

"According to the report – and illustrated in chart below – the cost of subsidising the diesel fuel used by just five of the nation’s biggest coal companies – Glencore Xstrata, BHP Billiton, Peabody, Rio Tinto and Anglo American – is around $360 million a year."

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random

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Re: "Same as it ever was"
Reply #13 - Dec 20^th, 2015 at 11:54am

random wrote on Dec 20^th, 2015 at 11:50am:

Have you read the story about the Australian tax payers paying for the fuel used by coal miners?

"According to the report – and illustrated in chart below – the cost of subsidising the diesel fuel used by just five of the nation’s biggest coal companies – Glencore Xstrata, BHP Billiton, Peabody, Rio Tinto and Anglo American – is around $360 million a year."

And about Shukla? If he did something wrong he should be charged and tried for it.

Unlike the climate denial industry that I hope will be in prison for fraud, deception, and misleading behavior, very soon

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lee

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Re: "Same as it ever was"
Reply #14 - Dec 20^th, 2015 at 2:18pm

random wrote on Dec 20^th, 2015 at 11:50am:

Have you read the story about the Australian tax payers paying for the fuel used by coal miners?

"According to the report – and illustrated in chart below – the cost of subsidising the diesel fuel used by just five of the nation’s biggest coal companies – Glencore Xstrata, BHP Billiton, Peabody, Rio Tinto and Anglo American – is around $360 million a year."

You do realise that Fuel tax credits are assessable income to the companies? It makes it a timing ssue.

'fuel tax credits, product stewardship (oil) benefit and cleaner fuels grant'

https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Income-and-deductions-for-business/Working-out-y...

'What to include in your assessable income

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