Australian Politics Forum - WTF are Jones, Abbott, Monkton, Bolt going to do?

gizmo_2655

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Re: WTF are Jones, Abbott, Monkton, Bolt going to do?
Reply #60 - Dec 27^th, 2015 at 8:23pm

Stratos wrote on Dec 27^th, 2015 at 7:15pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 27^th, 2015 at 6:50pm:

No idea why he lied about his resume...don't know the man, so I'm not really able to comment...

See, this is the problem when you take liars like Monckton at their word. If you don't bother checking their information, of course you will be taken in by a charismatic and confident speaker

I fully agree this applies to both sides of the debate. People would save so much time and argument if they just looked into claims.

Yes it does apply to both sides....i.e Michael Mann and Phil Jones spring to mind (Climategate), also John Cook et al with the "97% consensus among papers taking a position on the cause of global warming" article, and the Doran and Zimmerman "97% of scientists agree" bulldust...

The fact the Tim Ball 'padded' his resume doesn't make Monckton a liar though...since Lindzen, Christy, Carter etc haven't said or implied that Monckton has 'misquoted them'. I'm sure scientists of their calibre would do so, after all being misquoted would be damaging to their profession reputations.

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Bobbythebat

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the good ole boys Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 658 Gender:	Re: WTF are Jones, Abbott, Monkton, Bolt going to do? Reply #61 - Dec 27^th, 2015 at 8:26pm I agree Gizmo, the lies and obfuscations from the 'warmists' are really hurtful to the cause. If the problem is so dire; why exaggerate?
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gizmo_2655

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Re: WTF are Jones, Abbott, Monkton, Bolt going to do?
Reply #62 - Dec 27^th, 2015 at 8:29pm

the good ole boys wrote on Dec 27^th, 2015 at 8:26pm:

I agree Gizmo, the lies and obfuscations from the 'warmists' are really hurtful to the cause. If the problem is so dire; why exaggerate?

That is a very good question...The only reason to obfuscate and over play the message might be because the truth is nowhere near as 'dire' as we are supposed to believe.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Emma

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Re: WTF are Jones, Abbott, Monkton, Bolt going to do?
Reply #63 - Dec 27^th, 2015 at 10:25pm

I doubt that.gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 27^th, 2015 at 8:29pm:

The only reason to obfuscate and over play the message might be because the truth is nowhere near as 'dire' as we are supposed to believe.

For a start, you 'declare' the ONLY reason to lie,,MIGHT be..?? .. Grin

I can think of plenty of reasons for deniers to push their cause.. and really the Earth is telling us the truth.

Like No Snow in Moscow Shocked

New Yorkers riding bikes in mid-winter
200 hundred year old buildings washed away in UK ( 1 months rain in a day) from unprecedented rainfall and flooding, with more to come
Tornadoes decimating the central and mid west states, so far.

DARLINGS... why listen to talking heads with agendas, when you can see it on the News EVERY F'N day.!!

Pull you heads out of the ether, and look around at the real world.
Angry

Not very smart people, are you.?

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Emma

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Re: WTF are Jones, Abbott, Monkton, Bolt going to do?
Reply #64 - Dec 27^th, 2015 at 10:40pm

Further.. look to our wildlife.

In particular wetland birds. A report just released shows that no wetland birds are breeding in Australia, except for black swans in one small location. The bird count is drastically below the average, and bodes ill for the future of our wildlife . We have created a dying world.. we should try to stop this, irrespective of economic costs, because , purely for reasonable self-interest, we will die out too, when the bees and bats and birds are gone. Sad

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gizmo_2655

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Re: WTF are Jones, Abbott, Monkton, Bolt going to do?
Reply #65 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 9:43am

Emma wrote on Dec 27^th, 2015 at 10:25pm:

I doubt that.gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 27^th, 2015 at 8:29pm:

The only reason to obfuscate and over play the message might be because the truth is nowhere near as 'dire' as we are supposed to believe.

For a start, you 'declare' the ONLY reason to lie,,MIGHT be..?? .. Grin

I can think of plenty of reasons for deniers to push their cause.. and really the Earth is telling us the truth.

Like No Snow in Moscow Shocked

New Yorkers riding bikes in mid-winter
200 hundred year old buildings washed away in UK ( 1 months rain in a day) from unprecedented rainfall and flooding, with more to come
Tornadoes decimating the central and mid west states, so far.

DARLINGS... why listen to talking heads with agendas, when you can see it on the News EVERY F'N day.!!

Pull you heads out of the ether, and look around at the real world.
Angry

Not very smart people, are you.?

Ok, only reason 'I can see'...that better??

Like No Snow in Moscow

Really??? "A large, early snowstorm in Moscow disrupted flights and created havoc on the roads. Yelena Temakina, chief of the forecast department at Moscow's Meteorological Office, said 20 centimetres (8 inches) of snow had fallen in 24 hours. Moscow's City Hall said it expects the snowstorm, which is due to continue at least until Friday morning, to be the biggest in November in 50 years. Other parts of Europe experienced their first snowfall of the season." Well it seems there IS snow in Moscow.

New Yorkers riding bikes in mid-winter

"Temperatures passed the record of 64 F set in 1923 on Sunday and tied the record of 67 set in 1881 on Monday, despite extensive clouds and fog."

Well, looks like it's not the first time New York has had mild winter

weather

(and as warmists keep telling us, weather is not climate)

200 hundred year old buildings washed away in UK ( 1 months rain in a day) from unprecedented rainfall and flooding, with more to come

." The UK has had floods and heavy rain before, 'unprecedented' usually means nothing more than 'there's nothing in the written records like it'

Tornadoes decimating the central and mid west states, so far

. That happens ever year. Even the IPCC has said there is no evidence of any increase in number or severity of extreme weather events, in fact there's been a decline.

None of the events you listed are actually proof of HUMAN influence on climate......

I'd suggest that you might need to "pull your head out of the ether, and look around at the real world"

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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gizmo_2655

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Re: WTF are Jones, Abbott, Monkton, Bolt going to do?
Reply #66 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 9:50am

Emma wrote on Dec 27^th, 2015 at 10:40pm:

Further.. look to our wildlife.

In particular wetland birds. A report just released shows that no wetland birds are breeding in Australia, except for black swans in one small location. The bird count is drastically below the average, and bodes ill for the future of our wildlife . We have created a dying world.. we should try to stop this, irrespective of economic costs, because , purely for reasonable self-interest, we will die out too, when the bees and bats and birds are gone. Sad

Actually, that report doesn't say that 'no wetland birds are breeding', it says there is DROP in breeding rates of 60% over the last 33 years. (and they've only been studying the breeding rates since 1983, so that's pretty short cycle to work on)

Please stop trying to overstate everything for "effect"...it makes you look very naive and gullible.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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damien

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Re: WTF are Jones, Abbott, Monkton, Bolt going to do?
Reply #67 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 10:47am

Redmond Neck wrote on Dec 13^th, 2015 at 6:27pm:

What the fluck are all the deniers going to do?

All the worlds countries have agreed Global Warming is stuffing the world!

They cant all be wrong you dopes!

You are a mob of fluckwits! Grin

WWII - many countries denied that Hitler was trying to annihilate the Jewish people and nation. But they were wrong. Numbers do not mean you are right.

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The Coalition won!! Now get over it!!

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lee

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Re: WTF are Jones, Abbott, Monkton, Bolt going to do?
Reply #68 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 12:59pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 9:43am:

200 hundred year old buildings washed away in UK ( 1 months rain in a day) from unprecedented rainfall and flooding, with more to come
." The UK has had floods and heavy rain before, 'unprecedented' usually means nothing more than 'there's nothing in the written records like it'

Much like the El Nino year of 1997.

'A Met Office forecast warns of potential flooding caused by more than one and a half foot of rain, with councils and emergency services told to be on standby for what will "more likely than not" become "the strongest ever" El Nino on record. '

'A Met Office spokesperson said: "This year’s El Niño started to grow in April and it has now become a strong, mature event similar to the landmark 1997-8 event. '

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/weather/11983384/Three-months-of-storms-set-to-b...

Ah, weather- what's not to like?

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lee

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Re: WTF are Jones, Abbott, Monkton, Bolt going to do?
Reply #69 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 1:10pm

Emma wrote on Dec 27^th, 2015 at 10:40pm:

Further.. look to our wildlife.

In particular wetland birds. A report just released shows that no wetland birds are breeding in Australia, except for black swans in one small location. The bird count is drastically below the average, and bodes ill for the future of our wildlife . We have created a dying world.. we should try to stop this, irrespective of economic costs, because , purely for reasonable self-interest, we will die out too, when the bees and bats and birds are gone. Sad

The report is centred on eastern Australia. Not Australia.

The professor compares 2015 to 2011. But 2011 was a flood year not a drought year. Wildlife breed to conditions? Who knew?

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the good ole boys

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Re: WTF are Jones, Abbott, Monkton, Bolt going to do?
Reply #70 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 1:50pm

Climate change is about carbon dioxide emissions, right? How come much of climate change evidence actually relates to deforestation, salinity, water pollution and air pollution? Don't get me wrong; I reckon they're the real threats to mother Earth (along with overpopulation-another argument for another day). Still, is climate change a 'specific' descriptor of one way mankind is f$*ing up the planet or a blanket term that is lazily used to describe every way?

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Emma

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Re: WTF are Jones, Abbott, Monkton, Bolt going to do?
Reply #71 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 9:12pm

yes I agree.. and it is a lazy way of defining what is a truly complex issue.

At the very least, I got you all out of arguing about who said what about what when why, and got you looking at the real world.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 9:50am:

Actually, that report doesn't say that 'no wetland birds are breeding', it says there is DROP in breeding rates of 60% over the last 33 years. (and they've only been studying the breeding rates since 1983, so that's pretty short cycle to work on)

Umm yeah.. I wonder why you don't consider this is an issue of concern.. why so dismissive?.

I know the big wet a few years ago increased numbers of wetland birds, not seen for years. Lake Eyre was actually filled.

This latest monsoon season may allow waters to flow there again, but I guess we need to wait and se. After all, this is a cyclical system.

Goes around comes around.

If we keep over-using our water supplies for inefficient crops, we are adding to the damage done by 'natural events'.

There are so many ways we could act, but economics rule. The money is the most important consideration, but it is a short-sighted and flawed philosophy on which to run a world. Sad

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gizmo_2655

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Re: WTF are Jones, Abbott, Monkton, Bolt going to do?
Reply #72 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 9:30pm

Emma wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 9:12pm:

yes I agree.. and it is a lazy way of defining what is a truly complex issue.

At the very least, I got you all out of arguing about who said what about what when why, and got you looking at the real world.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 9:50am:

Actually, that report doesn't say that 'no wetland birds are breeding', it says there is DROP in breeding rates of 60% over the last 33 years. (and they've only been studying the breeding rates since 1983, so that's pretty short cycle to work on)

Umm yeah.. I wonder why you don't consider this is an issue of concern.. why so dismissive?.

I know the big wet a few years ago increased numbers of wetland birds, not seen for years. Lake Eyre was actually filled.

This latest monsoon season may allow waters to flow there again, but I guess we need to wait and se. After all, this is a cyclical system.

Goes around comes around.

If we keep over-using our water supplies for inefficient crops, we are adding to the damage done by 'natural events'.

There are so many ways we could act, but economics rule. The money is the most important consideration, but it is a short-sighted and flawed philosophy on which to run a world. Sad

Why am I so dismissive?? Perhaps because a study length of just 33 years isn't long enough to cover one full cycle of dry/wet conditions in Australian wetlands..So saying the breeding rate is down 60%, without knowing whether the comparison rate (the +40% rate) is unusual or not really doesn't give a clear idea of the issue.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Emma

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Re: WTF are Jones, Abbott, Monkton, Bolt going to do?
Reply #73 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 11:13pm

I'd imagine its pretty dry where you are.. I thought the study report I referred to covered more time than you suggest. I may be wrong on that, BUT....

given human industrial activity has been largely un- monitored until relatively recently, this is a trend no-one should consider unimportant.

IT SPEAKS to a much larger impact than just the results of LOCAL WEATHER.

Many important areas of research have been very poorly funded, precisely because the multi-nats DON'T WANT the truth to be known.

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Emma

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Re: WTF are Jones, Abbott, Monkton, Bolt going to do?
Reply #74 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 11:26pm

Like No Snow in Moscow

Really??? "A large, early snowstorm in Moscow disrupted flights and created havoc on the roads. Yelena Temakina, chief of the forecast department at Moscow's Meteorological Office, said 20 centimetres (8 inches) of snow had fallen in 24 hours.

Moscow's City Hall said it expects the snowstorm, which is due to continue at least until Friday morning, to be the [b]biggest in November in 50 years. Other parts of Europe experienced their first snowfall of the season."

[/b]

Well it seems there IS snow in Moscow.

But that was in November. I'm talking about now.

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