Australian Politics Forum - Was Islam spread by the Sword

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 52836 At my desk.	Re: Was Islam spread by the Sword Reply #135 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 10:25am Gandalf do you think that Muhammed's slaughtering of Jews and pagans is evidence of Islam being spread by the sword? Was the Caliphate a religious and militant state? Did Islam spread on the back of it's conquests? Do you think the Caliphate became a different state when Muhammed died?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Was Islam spread by the Sword
Reply #136 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 11:03am

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 10:25am:

Gandalf do you think that Muhammed's slaughtering of Jews and pagans is evidence of Islam being spread by the sword?

Was the Caliphate a religious and militant state? Did Islam spread on the back of it's conquests?

Do you think the Caliphate became a different state when Muhammed died?

The caliphate was not conquering pagans - there were literally none left. They conquered jews, christians and zoroastrians - all of which Islam considers 'people of the book' - and therefore eligible for the dhimmi system. And since the dhimmi system grants unprecedented rights of worship and a more generous tax system than the people had before - I would think "most people" would consider that the very opposite to "spreading Islam by the sword". So thats why I continue to ask you to justify how "most people" would consider "what the caliphate did" as spreading religion by the sword - in vain it seems. I'm especially curious how you can be so adamant about this system being spread by the sword while demurring over what the Christian emperors of Rome did to spread Christianity amongst an overwhelmingly pagan population in the late 4th century.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 52836 At my desk.	Re: Was Islam spread by the Sword Reply #137 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 11:09am Quote: The caliphate was not conquering pagans - there were literally none left. By when were there none left Gandalf? You keep hinting at a timeline but never saying what it is. Are you saying Islam was not spread by the sword because it wiped out the pagans before the Caliphate got going?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Was Islam spread by the Sword
Reply #138 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 1:10pm

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 11:09am:

Are you saying Islam was not spread by the sword because it wiped out the pagans before the Caliphate got going?

But FD this is not about whether or not Islam spread by the sword during Muhammad's time - I'm merely asking you to justify your claim that "most people" think of "what the caliphate did" when they talk about Islam spreading by the sword.

Did you actually mean that? Why didn't you just say "most people think of Muhammad slaughtering pagans and jews when talking about Islam spreading by the sword"? Clearly thats all you want to talk about.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Was Islam spread by the Sword
Reply #139 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 1:15pm

Who started the Caliphate Gandalf?

I have already provided the justification - see my earlier list of issues you are afraid to discuss. You are welcome to try to justify taking mistreatment of pagans off the list with your "already wiped them out" argument - hence my suggestion that you clarify the time period and geographic region you are attempting to restrict the debate to. It is fun watching you try to chalk up points with that one.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Was Islam spread by the Sword Reply #140 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 2:23pm freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 1:15pm: I have already provided the justification - see my earlier list of issues you are afraid to discuss. Yes, the rounding up of women and creating an "Islamic breeding program". Its a novel idea, but I think I'll just stick to the actual facts.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 52836 At my desk.	Re: Was Islam spread by the Sword Reply #141 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 2:57pm It is hardly novel Gandalf. It was a Muslim who gave me the details. Do you disagree with any of them? Any luck narrowing down the time frame and geographical area to one that makes Islam look good?
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Big Donger Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 101712	Re: Was Islam spread by the Sword Reply #142 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 3:51pm freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 2:57pm: It is hardly novel Gandalf. It was a Muslim who gave me the details. Abu?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Was Islam spread by the Sword
Reply #143 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 6:24pm

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 2:57pm:

It is hardly novel Gandalf.

Right, so when "most people" talk about Islam spreading by the sword - they are really referring to some sinister caliphate Islamisation program of systematically rounding up non-muslim women to be raped by muslims as part of a mass breeding program. Did you get a tin-foil hat for christmas FD?

Quote:

It was a Muslim who gave me the details.

Humour me FD - show me a quote.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Big Donger Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 101712	Re: Was Islam spread by the Sword Reply #144 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 6:28pm There you go, FD. He’s confessed. You’ve done it. The 2007 FD can now return.
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Was Islam spread by the Sword Reply #145 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 6:39pm We have daily evidence of Islamic violence against any and all non-Muslims. Who could possibly imagine that Islam was spread peacefully?
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Big Donger Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 101712	Re: Was Islam spread by the Sword Reply #146 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 6:44pm Soren wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 6:39pm: We have daily evidence of Islamic violence against any and all non-Muslims. Who could possibly imagine that Islam was spread peacefully? That’s a question, dear boy. Was Islam spread by the sword?
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freediver

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Re: Was Islam spread by the Sword
Reply #147 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 8:09pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 6:24pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 2:57pm:

It is hardly novel Gandalf.

Right, so when "most people" talk about Islam spreading by the sword - they are really referring to some sinister caliphate Islamisation program of systematically rounding up non-muslim women to be raped by muslims as part of a mass breeding program. Did you get a tin-foil hat for christmas FD?

Quote:

It was a Muslim who gave me the details.

Humour me FD - show me a quote.

Tell me which part you disagree with and I will see if I can track down the relevant quote.

Did you know that Muhammed once congratulated one of his soldiers for preventing the women escaping while they were sacking their village?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Was Islam spread by the Sword Reply #148 - Dec 28^th, 2015 at 8:59pm freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2015 at 8:09pm: Tell me which part you disagree with and I will see if I can track down the relevant quote. The whole breeding program thing. You said a muslim explained it all to you - at least give me the executive summary. Or just make something up.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 52836 At my desk.	Re: Was Islam spread by the Sword Reply #149 - Jan 2^nd, 2016 at 2:19pm http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Faith_Ratchet#The_sex_ratchet
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