Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 68 69 70 71 72 ... 89
Send Topic Print
Baden Clay wins appeal. (Read 105002 times)
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39247
Gender: male
Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #1035 - Feb 1st, 2016 at 10:29pm
 
This is sketchy, and maybe anyone with access to the actual document will put that up.  But, if this is all the appeal to the High Court is based on, it has little chance of success.  Maybe there is more to it than is revealed in this:

Link.

No discovery of anything new, just a rehash or an attempt to re-run submissions available at the Trial and at the Appeal Court.

So, he it is alleged he have had motive because of his affair.  Nothing new there.  Always known and argued.

He dumped her body (according the the Jury verdict) ......wow......nothing new there.  That is consistent with manslaughter as much as it is with murder.

There has to be more than that ABC link has mentioned.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #1036 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 12:34pm
 
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/retired-judge-delivers-his-verdict-on...

It is of no surprise to me that there has been considerable public disquiet at the decision of the Court of Appeal in the Baden-Clay case.

However, much of the public criticism has been misdirected. The law does not need to be changed. The simple fact is that the Court of Appeal got it wrong.

The court’s view was that the evidence in the case and the legitimate inferences from the evidence did not enable the jury to conclude that Baden-Clay intended to kill his wife, in preference to concluding that he may have killed her unintentionally by an unlawful act.

The law permits an appellate court to determine whether inferences may be drawn from proven primary facts but the law does not permit an appellate court to substitute its own inferences for those legitimate inferences which a jury must have drawn to convict in any particular case.

ASSESSMENT

It is my opinion that in the present case there was clear evidence which permitted the jury to consider that there had been an intentional killing and to reject the manslaughter hypothesis.

For a clear exposition of the law in relation to the use of evidence in a circumstantial case (as this was) I refer the reader the unanimous decision of a very distinguished bench of five High Court Justices in PLOMP v R (1963) 110 CLR 234- Especially the judgement of Menzies J, at pp. 244 to 247.

The Court of Appeal completely endorsed the view that the evidence in the Baden-Clay case was capable of supporting the conclusion that the appellant had caused his wife’s death by an unlawful act but they reasoned that in the particular circumstances a finding of an intent to kill could not be sustained.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39247
Gender: male
Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #1037 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 12:38pm
 
cods wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 12:34pm:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/retired-judge-delivers-his-verdict-on...

It is of no surprise to me that there has been considerable public disquiet at the decision of the Court of Appeal in the Baden-Clay case.

However, much of the public criticism has been misdirected. The law does not need to be changed. The simple fact is that the Court of Appeal got it wrong.

The court’s view was that the evidence in the case and the legitimate inferences from the evidence did not enable the jury to conclude that Baden-Clay intended to kill his wife, in preference to concluding that he may have killed her unintentionally by an unlawful act.

The law permits an appellate court to determine whether inferences may be drawn from proven primary facts but the law does not permit an appellate court to substitute its own inferences for those legitimate inferences which a jury must have drawn to convict in any particular case.

ASSESSMENT

It is my opinion that in the present case there was clear evidence which permitted the jury to consider that there had been an intentional killing and to reject the manslaughter hypothesis.

For a clear exposition of the law in relation to the use of evidence in a circumstantial case (as this was) I refer the reader the unanimous decision of a very distinguished bench of five High Court Justices in PLOMP v R (1963) 110 CLR 234- Especially the judgement of Menzies J, at pp. 244 to 247.

The Court of Appeal completely endorsed the view that the evidence in the Baden-Clay case was capable of supporting the conclusion that the appellant had caused his wife’s death by an unlawful act but they reasoned that in the particular circumstances a finding of an intent to kill could not be sustained.


Can't get past the paywall.  Who was the retired Judge, and when did they write that?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #1038 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 12:54pm
 
the judge has 50 years experience but withheld his identity to avoid controversy..
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39247
Gender: male
Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #1039 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:02pm
 
cods wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 12:54pm:
the judge has 50 years experience but withheld his identity to avoid controversy..


When did they write that?

Can you cut and paste the bit where it says they have had 50 years experience and that he does not want to identified?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #1040 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:04pm
 
A RETIRED interstate Supreme Court judge delivers his verdict on the controversial downgrading of Gerard Baden Clay’s murder conviction by the Court of Appeal.

The judge, who has more than 50 years’ experience as a legal practitioner and judge, has defended, prosecuted and tried many cases of murder.

He is withholding his identity only to avoid controversy.


now do you believe???????????????????????????
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39247
Gender: male
Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #1041 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:07pm
 
I'm not going to take any notice of what some alleged interstate un-named person has to say, especially when the schmedia can never be trusted not to simply manufacture sources.

The reference to the Plomp case sounds clunky.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Lisa Jones
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female
Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #1042 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:08pm
 
Cods, just SO YOU KNOW :

1.Well done!

2. I still have that gastric pain lol.
Back to top
 

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39247
Gender: male
Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #1043 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:09pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:08pm:
Cods, just SO YOU KNOW :

1.Well done!

2. I still have that gastric pain lol.


Close your pockets cods, lest they become warm and wet.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 144184
Gender: male
Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #1044 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:31pm
 
cods wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:04pm:
A RETIRED interstate Supreme Court judge delivers his verdict on the controversial downgrading of Gerard Baden Clay’s murder conviction by the Court of Appeal.

The judge, who has more than 50 years’ experience as a legal practitioner and judge, has defended, prosecuted and tried many cases of murder.

He is withholding his identity only to avoid controversy.


now do you believe???????????????????????????


We need to know exactly who this judge is before we can make an assessment on his verdict.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
red baron
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 10204
Blue Mountains
Gender: male
Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #1045 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:50pm
 
I have read your link Aussie and I am disappointed that no reference to the 'million dollar pay day' in the Appeal.

If they just go with what has been reported in the Courier Mail i.e. that he did it to be with his mistress then they have a snowball's chance in hell of getting it up.

Now that 'million dollar insurance pay day' that is Motive,  with a capital 'M' particularly when you are on the bones of your financial arse as Gerard Baden-Clay was/is.

To me IT IS The Elephant in the room in this case.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39247
Gender: male
Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #1046 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:54pm
 
red baron wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:50pm:
I have read your link Aussie and I am disappointed that no reference to the 'million dollar pay day' in the Appeal.

If they just go with what has been reported in the Courier Mail i.e. that he did it to be with his mistress then they have a snowball's chance in hell of getting it up.

Now that 'million dollar insurance pay day' that is Motive,  with a capital 'M' particularly when you are on the bones of your financial arse as Gerard Baden-Clay was/is.

To me IT IS The Elephant in the room in this case.



You are on your own on that matter, Mr Baron.  Not even the State of Queensland has taken that position in its appeal to the High Court.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
greggerypeccary
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 144184
Gender: male
Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #1047 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:54pm
 
red baron wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:50pm:
I have read your link Aussie and I am disappointed that no reference to the 'million dollar pay day' in the Appeal.

If they just go with what has been reported in the Courier Mail i.e. that he did it to be with his mistress then they have a snowball's chance in hell of getting it up.

Now that 'million dollar insurance pay day' that is Motive,  with a capital 'M' particularly when you are on the bones of your financial arse as Gerard Baden-Clay was/is.

To me IT IS The Elephant in the room in this case.



Motive? Sure.

Proof of guilt? No.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 39247
Gender: male
Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #1048 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:57pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:31pm:
cods wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:04pm:
A RETIRED interstate Supreme Court judge delivers his verdict on the controversial downgrading of Gerard Baden Clay’s murder conviction by the Court of Appeal.

The judge, who has more than 50 years’ experience as a legal practitioner and judge, has defended, prosecuted and tried many cases of murder.

He is withholding his identity only to avoid controversy.


now do you believe???????????????????????????


We need to know exactly who this judge is before we can make an assessment on his verdict.



I suspect it will be a Victorian (if it is in fact a Judge) as the Victorian Court of Appeal has apparently taken a different view in several cases of circumstantial evidence as has the Queensland Court of Appeal.  Neither Court is bound by the decisions of the other.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
red baron
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 10204
Blue Mountains
Gender: male
Re: Baden Clay wins appeal.
Reply #1049 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 2:10pm
 
Maybe its just me but IF Gerard Baden-Clay had been successful in evading the law.

He WOULD have walked with that almost 'million dollar insurance pay day'.

Would have been a case of 'got the Ho and got the dough'. Wink

Post Script: The thing that fascinates me about this Insurance thing is that Gerard's father set up that Policy for Allison.

BUT..There has never been any mention that Gerard's life was Insured similarly.

I find that disturbing..VERY DISTURBING. What is it with his father's murky hands moving in all of this.

I would seriously follow up on that  if I was investigating the case.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 68 69 70 71 72 ... 89
Send Topic Print