Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6 
Send Topic Print
You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next (Read 8515 times)
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21590
Gender: male
Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #75 - Dec 20th, 2015 at 10:49am
 
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 20th, 2015 at 6:43am:
The Ozone hole is definitely as a result of Chlorine radicals caused by the breakdown of CFCs. There probably won't be much of a trend until concentrations reduce further.

Thomas Midgley has a lot to answer for.



Please explain the transport mechanism.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
The_Barnacle
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 6205
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #76 - Dec 20th, 2015 at 12:05pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 19th, 2015 at 9:59pm:
'Why Has an Ozone Hole Appeared over Antarctica When CFCs and Halons Are Released Mainly in the Northern Hemisphere?'




It's because their is more ice in the statosphere in the southern hemisphere to facilitate the destruction of ozone. So even though there are less CFCs in the southern hemisphere they are more potent.

Quote:
However, the reason we have a southern ozone hole instead of a northern one is not due to the amount of atmospheric pollution — it's due to temperature.

The stratosphere in the southern hemisphere — the layer of atmosphere where the ozone layer lies, 15 to 50 kilometres above the Earth's surface — is about five degrees Celsius colder than in the northern hemisphere.

"We get more ice in the stratosphere in the southern hemisphere, making the ozone-depleting chemicals more potent," Fraser says.

"This leads to that disparity between hemispheres as far as ozone [depletion] is concerned since it's not the level of chemicals that is driving them, but the ability of those chemicals to deplete ozone."

Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) are one type of ozone-depleting chemicals. They react with ultraviolet light to produce chlorine, which is then able to destroy ozone.

This chemical reaction that frees chlorine from CFCs takes place on the surface of tiny particles of ice in the stratosphere.

"The more ice there is in the stratosphere, the more ozone-destroying chlorine is liberated from CFCs," Fraser says.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2009/06/03/2588286.htm

Back to top
 

The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.
 
IP Logged
 
John_Taverner
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2217
Gender: male
Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #77 - Dec 20th, 2015 at 2:00pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 20th, 2015 at 10:49am:
Please explain the transport mechanism.


This site covers how the ozone layer is formed, and the action of various free radicals in breaking down the ozone. For ClOx, see Section 10.2.3 onward.

http://acmg.seas.harvard.edu/people/faculty/djj/book/bookchap10.html
Back to top
 
72+Adelaide+Street  
IP Logged
 
John_Taverner
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2217
Gender: male
Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #78 - Dec 20th, 2015 at 2:09pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 20th, 2015 at 12:05pm:
It's because their is more ice in the statosphere in the southern hemisphere to facilitate the destruction of ozone. So even though there are less CFCs in the southern hemisphere they are more potent.



It's quite a good summary. The ozone destruction is catalysed by free radicals at an altitude of about 20km. In the case of stratospheric ice, it's the H-Ox. radical where x=1 or 2.

The actual water content (dewpoint) at that altitude is miniscule.
Back to top
 
72+Adelaide+Street  
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21590
Gender: male
Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #79 - Dec 20th, 2015 at 2:28pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 20th, 2015 at 2:00pm:
lee wrote on Dec 20th, 2015 at 10:49am:
Please explain the transport mechanism.


This site covers how the ozone layer is formed, and the action of various free radicals in breaking down the ozone. For ClOx, see Section 10.2.3 onward.

http://acmg.seas.harvard.edu/people/faculty/djj/book/bookchap10.html



It doesn't explain the transport of CFC's from the Northern Hemisphere to the Southern Hemisphere.

' Because of the lack of topography or land-ocean contrast to disturb the westerly flow at southern midlatitudes, little meridional transport takes place and the antarctic atmosphere is effectively isolated from lower latitudes.'

http://acmg.seas.harvard.edu/people/faculty/djj/book/bookchap10.html
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
John_Taverner
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2217
Gender: male
Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #80 - Dec 20th, 2015 at 4:56pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 20th, 2015 at 2:28pm:
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 20th, 2015 at 2:00pm:
lee wrote on Dec 20th, 2015 at 10:49am:
Please explain the transport mechanism.


This site covers how the ozone layer is formed, and the action of various free radicals in breaking down the ozone. For ClOx, see Section 10.2.3 onward.

http://acmg.seas.harvard.edu/people/faculty/djj/book/bookchap10.html



It doesn't explain the transport of CFC's from the Northern Hemisphere to the Southern Hemisphere.

' Because of the lack of topography or land-ocean contrast to disturb the westerly flow at southern midlatitudes, little meridional transport takes place and the antarctic atmosphere is effectively isolated from lower latitudes.'

http://acmg.seas.harvard.edu/people/faculty/djj/book/bookchap10.html



I wondered what you meant. I thought you meant transport to the upper atmosphere. It's a gas.

The Antarctic is effectively isolated for about a year. The lag time is about a year.  Let me find a suitably academic reference.

Here we are. Also from Harvard:
http://acmg.seas.harvard.edu/people/faculty/djj/book/bookchap4.html

Look through the article until you find this diagram:

...

Quote:
Daniel J. Jacob
Vasco McCoy Family Professor
of Atmospheric Chemistry
and Environmental Engineering
Harvard University



The Antarctic airmass is actually pretty well isolated during the winter. It's referred to as the Antarctic Vortex.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Dec 20th, 2015 at 5:01pm by John_Taverner »  
72+Adelaide+Street  
IP Logged
 
lee
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 21590
Gender: male
Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #81 - Dec 20th, 2015 at 6:24pm
 
Looking at Interhemispheric exchanges

'    3. 4 Interhemispheric exchange

In this problem we use observations of the radioactive gas 85Kr to determine the characteristic time for exchange of air between the northern and southern hemispheres. We consider a 2-box model where each hemisphere is represented by a well-mixed box, with a rate constant k (yr -1 ) for mass exchange between the two hemispheres. Our goal is to derive the residence time t = 1/k of air in each hemisphere. '

http://acmg.seas.harvard.edu/people/faculty/djj/book/bookhwk3.html#76878

Ahh, back to the well mixed gases.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
progressiveslol
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17029
Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #82 - Dec 28th, 2015 at 2:28pm
 
. already dealt with so deleted
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
BatteriesNotIncluded
Gold Member
*****
Offline


MediocrityNET: because
people died for this!

Posts: 26966
Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #83 - Jan 1st, 2016 at 10:25pm
 
boxy wrote on Dec 19th, 2015 at 9:43pm:
lee wrote on Dec 19th, 2015 at 9:32pm:
Nuclear is long term sustainable.

Yes, it potentially is, as long as we can mitigate the downsides.

Nuclear Power is not long term sustainable as it only exists because Nuclear Weapons exist.

Not one politician thinks it wise for the whole world to go nuclear: not one!

... I wonder why  Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
Back to top
 

*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
IP Logged
 
BatteriesNotIncluded
Gold Member
*****
Offline


MediocrityNET: because
people died for this!

Posts: 26966
Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #84 - Jan 1st, 2016 at 10:26pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 20th, 2015 at 6:24pm:
Looking at Interhemispheric exchanges

'    3. 4 Interhemispheric exchange

In this problem we use observations of the radioactive gas 85Kr to determine the characteristic time for exchange of air between the northern and southern hemispheres. We consider a 2-box model where each hemisphere is represented by a well-mixed box, with a rate constant k (yr -1 ) for mass exchange between the two hemispheres. Our goal is to derive the residence time t = 1/k of air in each hemisphere. '

http://acmg.seas.harvard.edu/people/faculty/djj/book/bookhwk3.html#76878

Ahh, back to the well mixed gases.

ah, back to lee not reading properly  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
Back to top
 

*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6 
Send Topic Print