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You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next (Read 8529 times)
progressiveslol
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Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #45 - Dec 13th, 2015 at 11:38am
 
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 13th, 2015 at 11:11am:
lee wrote on Dec 12th, 2015 at 8:37pm:
You're right.  She couldn't possibly have changed her mind about the ozone hole that doesn't exist.

Was she a geochemist or an ice cream chemist?


You don't think that the ozone hole exists? What, are you a moon landing conspiracist too?

Der, the hole does not exist. For the dummies, it is not a hole, it is a thinner layer of ozone.
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #46 - Dec 13th, 2015 at 11:56am
 
progressiveslol wrote on Dec 13th, 2015 at 11:38am:
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 13th, 2015 at 11:11am:
lee wrote on Dec 12th, 2015 at 8:37pm:
You're right.  She couldn't possibly have changed her mind about the ozone hole that doesn't exist.

Was she a geochemist or an ice cream chemist?


You don't think that the ozone hole exists? What, are you a moon landing conspiracist too?

Der, the hole does not exist. For the dummies, it is not a hole, it is a thinner layer of ozone.

lol, semantics  Grin Grin

Yay, go the liberal party and copper internet based dreams of an innovation nation!

Someone just make it stop  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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John_Taverner
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Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #47 - Dec 13th, 2015 at 12:18pm
 
progressiveslol wrote on Dec 13th, 2015 at 11:38am:
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 13th, 2015 at 11:11am:
lee wrote on Dec 12th, 2015 at 8:37pm:
You're right.  She couldn't possibly have changed her mind about the ozone hole that doesn't exist.

Was she a geochemist or an ice cream chemist?


You don't think that the ozone hole exists? What, are you a moon landing conspiracist too?

Der, the hole does not exist. For the dummies, it is not a hole, it is a thinner layer of ozone.


It's a hole in the sense of a deficiency. Prior to about 1979, the minimum stratospheric ozone above the Antarctic was above 300 Dobson Units. Anything less than 220 is defined as a hole. Ozone blocks UV-B rays from reaching the Earth's surface. The centre of the Ozone hole is typically below 120 DU.

A Dobson Unit is 0.01mm of thickness of Ozone at Standard temperature and pressure.

(For the dummies, this does not actually translate to a "thinner layer of ozone". The thickness of the layer may be the same, but the stratospheric concentration is lower giving rise to a lower effective thickness.) 

The Ozone Hole only appears in the Southern Spring each year about October.  It is slowly declining, although this year showed a marked increase due to lower than normal temperatures in Antarctica for October.

...


The Australian Government, a signatory to the Montreal Protocol has an excellent resource on Ozone depletion here:

https://www.environment.gov.au/protection/ozone/montreal-protocol
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« Last Edit: Dec 13th, 2015 at 12:30pm by John_Taverner »  
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lee
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Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #48 - Dec 13th, 2015 at 7:09pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 13th, 2015 at 11:11am:
You don't think that the ozone hole exists? What, are you a moon landing conspiracist too?



You are channelling Lewandowsky too much.

'The Curious Case of Condemning Climate Skeptics as Conspiracy Theorists (Lewandowsky, Oberauer, & Gignac, 2013)

Into this mix stepped Lewandowski et al. (2013) with a paper titled, “NASA Faked the Moon Landing – Therefore (Climate) Science is a Hoax” – which strongly implies that people who doubt global warming believe bizarre conspiracy theories.  As Lewandowsky et al. (2013, p. 622) put it, “… conspiratorial thinking contributes to the rejection of science.”

One possibility is that this was true – that a disproportionately high number of people who disbelieve climate science also believe in something as silly as the faking of the moon landing.  Another, however, was that this was essentially trumped up in order to cast those who are most skeptical of the climate science as fools.

The implication that climate skeptics believe in the faking of the moon landing is another phantom fact.  Out of over 1145 respondents, there was a grand total of 10 who believed the moon landing was faked.  Among the 134 of participants who “rejected climate science,” only three people (2%) endorsed the moon-landing hoax. The link asserted in the title of the paper did not exist in the sample.

Understanding when people are and are not persuaded by science is an interesting and important area of research. But this curious case highlights the threat to scientific integrity that can stem from high moral missions. The notion that skeptics believed something so silly as the faking of the moon landing is yet another myth essentially concocted by the researcher.'

'The Social Psychology of Morality'

A new book from Psychology Press.
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progressiveslol
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Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #49 - Dec 13th, 2015 at 10:45pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 13th, 2015 at 12:18pm:
progressiveslol wrote on Dec 13th, 2015 at 11:38am:
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 13th, 2015 at 11:11am:
lee wrote on Dec 12th, 2015 at 8:37pm:
You're right.  She couldn't possibly have changed her mind about the ozone hole that doesn't exist.

Was she a geochemist or an ice cream chemist?


You don't think that the ozone hole exists? What, are you a moon landing conspiracist too?

Der, the hole does not exist. For the dummies, it is not a hole, it is a thinner layer of ozone.


It's a hole in the sense of a deficiency. Prior to about 1979, the minimum stratospheric ozone above the Antarctic was above 300 Dobson Units. Anything less than 220 is defined as a hole. Ozone blocks UV-B rays from reaching the Earth's surface. The centre of the Ozone hole is typically below 120 DU.

A Dobson Unit is 0.01mm of thickness of Ozone at Standard temperature and pressure.

(For the dummies, this does not actually translate to a "thinner layer of ozone". The thickness of the layer may be the same, but the stratospheric concentration is lower giving rise to a lower effective thickness.) 

The Ozone Hole only appears in the Southern Spring each year about October.  It is slowly declining, although this year showed a marked increase due to lower than normal temperatures in Antarctica for October.

http://www.skincancer.org/media/legacy/stories/2009_Journal/Ozone/ozone_figure1....


The Australian Government, a signatory to the Montreal Protocol has an excellent resource on Ozone depletion here:

https://www.environment.gov.au/protection/ozone/montreal-protocol

Bit long winded to only return to what I said. And opposite to thickness is....... Huh

giving rise to a lower effective thickness
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John_Taverner
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Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #50 - Dec 19th, 2015 at 5:36pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 13th, 2015 at 7:09pm:
You are channelling Lewandowsky too much.


Not really.

I just wondered if you shared the views of Ajax, who also posts here. He is a froth-at-the-mouth climate science denier, as well as being  a moon landing denialist and a 911 conspiracy theorist.  Oh, and he thinks that the banks are behind climate science, and that it's just a way of controlling the masses. It might also be a UN plot too. I don't remember all his ravings. 

Ajax wrote on Jun 8th, 2015 at 11:01am:
John_Taverner wrote on Jun 8th, 2015 at 10:58am:
Ajax wrote on Jun 8th, 2015 at 10:42am:
Moonlanding....I was watching Dagwood & Blonde when my show got interrupted with some clowns bouncing around over at area 51 claiming to be on the moon.

There space craft squeaky clean like it had been mister sheen cleaned it, flags waving in the wind, men bouncing around in half slow mo, all quite boring.

I was clad to get back to dagwood & blondie.


You are a moon landing conspiracy nut!   Shocked

That was just a stab in the dark


I also believe that the twin towers came down because of control demolition.... Cool


 
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« Last Edit: Dec 19th, 2015 at 5:50pm by John_Taverner »  
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lee
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Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #51 - Dec 19th, 2015 at 6:15pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 19th, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Oh, and he thinks that the banks are behind climate science, and that it's just a way of controlling the masses.


Not to the extent of controlling the masses. But it could certainly make mendicant states more so.

Well, there are profits to be made while subsidies are in play. I wouldn't dismiss it completely. The World Bank, IMF are certainly on board as far as lending for renewables is concerned.
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John_Taverner
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Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #52 - Dec 19th, 2015 at 7:20pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 19th, 2015 at 6:15pm:
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 19th, 2015 at 5:36pm:
Oh, and he thinks that the banks are behind climate science, and that it's just a way of controlling the masses.


Not to the extent of controlling the masses. But it could certainly make mendicant states more so.

Well, there are profits to be made while subsidies are in play. I wouldn't dismiss it completely. The World Bank, IMF are certainly on board as far as lending for renewables is concerned.


Renewables are the future.  The major oil companies are no longer funding the denial industry. They had to play for time. Now they are ready to profit from renewable energy.
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lee
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Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #53 - Dec 19th, 2015 at 7:50pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 19th, 2015 at 7:20pm:
The major oil companies are no longer funding the denial industry. They had to play for time. Now they are ready to profit from renewable energy.



Most of the oil companies have had extensive interest in renewables for some time. They have broad investment strategies.

I don't know that 'evil oil' was ever into the 'denialist industry'. It was more hype from the 'alarmist' crowd.
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John_Taverner
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Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #54 - Dec 19th, 2015 at 7:51pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 19th, 2015 at 7:50pm:
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 19th, 2015 at 7:20pm:
The major oil companies are no longer funding the denial industry. They had to play for time. Now they are ready to profit from renewable energy.



Most of the oil companies have had extensive interest in renewables for some time. They have broad investment strategies.


It's just good business sense.
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lee
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Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #55 - Dec 19th, 2015 at 7:53pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 19th, 2015 at 7:51pm:
It's just good business sense.



Of course. And above all else they are businesses.
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Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #56 - Dec 19th, 2015 at 7:55pm
 
Quote:
Chinese scientists have published two alarming reports in a matter of weeks. Both conclude that the Himalayan glaciers and the Tibetan permafrost are succumbing to catastrophic climate change, threatening the water systems of the Yellow River, the Yangtze and the Mekong.

The Tibetan plateau is the world’s "third pole", the biggest reservoir of fresh water outside the Arctic and Antarctica. The area is warming at twice the global pace, making it the epicentre of global climate risk.
One report was by the Chinese Academy of Sciences. The other was a 900-page door-stopper from the science ministry, called the “Third National Assessment Report on Climate Change”.

The latter is the official line of the Communist Party. It states that China has already warmed by 0.9-1.5 degrees over the past century – higher than the global average - and may warm by a further five degrees by 2100, with effects that would overwhelm the coastal cities of Shanghai, Tianjin and Guangzhou. The message is that China faces a civilizational threat.


I have been saying the Himalayan Plateau and the glaciers on it that are retreating are the reason the Chinese are pro action on AGW.

As well as the rivers mentioned above the Himalayan glaciers feed another four rivers, watering a quarter of the worlds population.

Quote:
Eight of the world’s biggest solar companies are Chinese. So is the second biggest wind power group, GoldWind. China invested $90bn in renewable energy last year and is already the superpower of low-carbon industries. It installed more solar in the first quarter than currently exists in France.

The Chinese plan to build six to eight nuclear plants every year, reaching 110 by 2030. They intend to lever this into worldwide nuclear dominance, as we glimpsed from the Hinkley Point saga.

Home-grown energy is central to Xi Jinping's drive for strategic security. China's leaders know what happened to Japan under Roosevelt's energy embargo in the late 1930s, and they don't trust the sea lanes for supplies of coal and liquefied natural gas. Nor do they relish reliance on Russian gas.


China dragging their feet on climate action is in the past.

Quote:
This is why they feel confident enough to forge ahead with a cap-and-trade system for carbon emissions in 2017, covering more CO2 than all of the world's 40 existing schemes put together.

China is changing fast. The energy intensity of Chinese GDP is in freefall as Xi Jinping tries to wean the economy off primitive metal-bashing and move up the technology ladder.

The "tertiary sector" has jumped from 42pc to 51pc of the economy since 2007, taking the baton as the Party starts to tackle vast swathes of excess capacity in steel, cement and shipbuilding.

It comes at a time when the cost curve for renewables has fallen far enough to make the post-carbon switch economically painless. "The average cost of global solar was $400 a megawatt/hour worldwide in 2010. It fell to $130 in 2014, and now it has fallen below $60 in the best locations. Almost nobody could have imagined this six years ago," said Mark Lewis from Barclays.


Of course, if we had not elected a Neanderthal in 2013, if the Greens had been sincere in wanting an ETS we could have been part of all this, now we will be passive consumers of renewables AGAIN!

Could have reduced power costs to consumers, industry too:
Quote:
China installed a record 23 gigawatts (GW) of windpower in 2014. It did so because wind is quick and cheap. Lazard calculates that the "levelized cost" of unsubsidized onshore wind has dropped 61pc globally, thanks to smart software, better blades and higher turbines that catch the sweet spot. It thinks wind now undercuts coal and gas, and by a wide margin in optimal spots.


Will finish with the subhead:
Quote:
China is the low-carbon superpower and will be the ultimate enforcer of the COP21 climate deal in Paris


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12052582/Even-if-the-global-warming...

I have also been an advocate of nuclear power here. It alone can , provide the high density power for industry.

We can use it for desalinisation. Buy the most modern plant, boost hugely nuclear science, engineering, applications like medical. Then get into electric cars, build a network of charging stations. Get Tesla to come here, build the real NBN, dam northern rivers, send them south and west, irrigation and hydro, water the drying south.
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« Last Edit: Dec 19th, 2015 at 8:06pm by Jovial Monk »  

OzPolitic needs a >real< Environment MRB now!
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Topics in the right MRB!
 
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lee
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Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #57 - Dec 19th, 2015 at 8:01pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 19th, 2015 at 7:55pm:
Will finish with the subhead:
Quote:
China is the low-carbon superpower and will be the ultimate enforcer of the COP21 climate deal in Paris



Yeah don't finish with the head quote -

'Even if the global warming scare were a hoax, we would still need it'

lol.
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John_Taverner
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Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #58 - Dec 19th, 2015 at 8:06pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 19th, 2015 at 6:15pm:


Not to the extent of controlling the masses. But it could certainly make mendicant states more so.



I have never subscribed to subsidising third world countries in the name of reducing carbon footprint.  Any money spent on renewable schemes in these countries is irrelevant, because it will have little impact within a global context.

Most of these countries will never improve.
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boxy
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Re: You have been lied to your entire life. AGW next
Reply #59 - Dec 19th, 2015 at 8:32pm
 
Ah, the ozone layer. Something that was acted upon, without huge dollars being invested in skepdicksism... and because action stopped it, it was all a lie? Ridiculous.
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