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Climate-change foes winning public opinion war (Read 4122 times)
Ajax
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CO2 has never controlled
temperature on Earth

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Re: Climate-change foes winning public opinion war
Reply #30 - Dec 20th, 2015 at 11:24am
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 20th, 2015 at 10:50am:
Ajax wrote on Dec 20th, 2015 at 8:40am:
No fairy stories just cold hard facts...... Smiley


More like misleading graphs and cherry picked data.

Your medieval warm period graph was doctored to remove the very important information that it is only Northern Hemisphere data. As I have pointed out in another thread the MWP was a European phenomenon, it wasn't global.

Once again you provided the CO2 / temperature graph which I have already discredited previously. It was doctored to have the very large error uncertainties removed and the time scale of 600 million years makes it completely useless.

last of all you repeat the "CO2 is only a trace gas" mantra, but fail to explain why this contradicts the scientific evidence that confirms that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and increasing the concentration will increase the temperature.   


Quote:
‘More than 700 scientists from 400 institutions in 40 countries have contributed peer-reviewed papers providing evidence that the Medieval Warm Period was real, global, & warmer than the present’


Read more: http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/03/08/more-than-700-scientists-from-400-institu...


Medieval Warm Period was real, global, & warmer than the present


Dahl_Jensen et al 1998
Wagner & Melles 2001
Kaplan et al 2002
Jiang et al 2002
Moore et al 2001
Grudd et al 2002
Seppa & Birks 2002
Dansgaard et al 1975
Korhola et al 2000
Naurzbaev et al 2002
Vaganov et el 1996
Briffa et al 1998
Scweingruber & Briffa 1996
Knudsen et al 2004
Grinsted et al 2006
Besonen et al 2008
Wagner et al 2008
Vare et al 2009
Norgaard-Pedersen & Mikkelsen 2009
Andresen et al 2004
Vinther et al 2010
Kobashi et al 2010
Kobashi et al 2008
Stuiver et al 1995
Dansgaard et al 1975
Jenings & Weiner 1996
Johnsen et al 2001
Vinther et al 2010
Larsen et al 2011
Hill et al 2001
Joynt & Wolfe 2001
Hantemirov & Shiyatov 2002
Andersson et al 2003
Helama et al 2005
Mazepa 2005
Weckstrom et al 2006
Jiang et al 2007
Zabenski & Gajewski 2007
Grudd 2008
Justwan et al 2008
Scire et al 2008
Axford et al 2009
Bjune et al 2009
Cook et al 2009
Fortin & Gajewski 2010
Buntgen et al 2011
Divine et al 2011
Ran et al 2011
Velle et al 2011
D’Andrea et al 2012
Esper et al 2012





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« Last Edit: Dec 20th, 2015 at 11:39am by Ajax »  

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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John_Taverner
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Re: Climate-change foes winning public opinion war
Reply #31 - Dec 21st, 2015 at 6:06am
 
Bobby. wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 3:42pm:
The Thames river in London was frozen solid during the Maunder minimum.

That is very cold.


Let me know if it ever happens again.

Here comes batman again with his fake graphs from Wattsupme.
The same ones every time.  Roll Eyes
No new arguments, just tired old refuted ones.

How much commission do you get for that?

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Jovial Monk
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Re: Climate-change foes winning public opinion war
Reply #32 - Dec 21st, 2015 at 7:15am
 
One of the deniers said something like “MWP was hotter than now without melting polar ice and melting Greenland Ice Sheets.”

This led me to think there was something wrong with the MWP theory. If the MWP was a local phenomenon as it seems it was then that contradiction is explained.

Still waiting for Booby to describe  Maunder minimum and show how we are heading for one. I guess that theory is just hot air too.

All this denialism is a lost cause. The Chinese govt has seen the shrinking of the Himalayan glaciers and permafrost which feed the Yellow and other Chinese rivers (plus the Mekong and Ganges etc) and is taking action and will ensure other govts act to reduce GHG emissions.
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Phemanderac
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Re: Climate-change foes winning public opinion war
Reply #33 - Dec 21st, 2015 at 7:25am
 
Facts are funny things, they are not actually open to debate.

The sad thing about debating facts is that the facts seem to get lost in the desire to win a war of words...

It seems that both sides are equally happy with this situation.

Now, if those who disagree with AGW are correct with their version of facts we have nothing to be too worried about. I think that would be a reasonable thing to consider.

Of course, if those who agree with AGW are correct with their version of facts, then it would seem equally reasonable that we have a lot to be very worried about.

What is obvious -while the debate keeps on raging, no significant change is happening to our environmental damaging practices which, if we do nothing about, will at some point tip the scale (regardless of climate) and not in our favour.

We live in a closed system, therefore, the more shyte we pump in, the less efficient that closes system will be at sustaining us.

Carry on winning the public opinion war, because I am sure at the end of the day that will be some comfort when the facts come home to bite your faces off...
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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..
 
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lee
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Re: Climate-change foes winning public opinion war
Reply #34 - Dec 21st, 2015 at 10:21am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 21st, 2015 at 7:15am:
One of the deniers said something like “MWP was hotter than now without melting polar ice and melting Greenland Ice Sheets.”


I don't think I have ever seen that. Perhaps you could get the exact quote.


Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 21st, 2015 at 7:15am:
If the MWP was a local phenomenon as it seems it was then that contradiction is explained.



Ignoring data from New Zealand, Antarctica, Chile, Tasmania? Or just that these were all local MWP events?
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innocentbystander.
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Re: Climate-change foes winning public opinion war
Reply #35 - Dec 21st, 2015 at 6:54pm
 
The church of the climate change evangelicals has converted David Attenborough to their religion now, he is now a born again climate change christian, its a big name to have brain washed, well done climate cranks  Grin
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Climate-change foes winning public opinion war
Reply #36 - Dec 21st, 2015 at 7:25pm
 
The whole Chinese govt has been “converted.”

Seems the retreat of the Himalayan icefield/permafrost has frightened all kinds of sh1t out the Politburo.

We will all have to toe the line soon or face green tariffs on Chinese imports/exports.
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John_Taverner
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Re: Climate-change foes winning public opinion war
Reply #37 - Dec 21st, 2015 at 7:25pm
 
David Attenborough is still extremely sharp for his age (89).

He has a degree in Natural Sciences.
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innocentbystander.
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Re: Climate-change foes winning public opinion war
Reply #38 - Dec 21st, 2015 at 8:20pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 21st, 2015 at 7:25pm:
David Attenborough is still extremely sharp for his age (89).

He has a degree in Natural Sciences.




He held out for while but if you live long enough we will all become idiot left climate cranks eventually, thanks to the ravages of senile dementia  Sad
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John_Taverner
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Re: Climate-change foes winning public opinion war
Reply #39 - Dec 22nd, 2015 at 8:18am
 
innocentbystander. wrote on Dec 21st, 2015 at 8:20pm:
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 21st, 2015 at 7:25pm:
David Attenborough is still extremely sharp for his age (89).

He has a degree in Natural Sciences.




He held out for while but if you live long enough we will all become idiot left climate cranks eventually, thanks to the ravages of senile dementia  Sad 


You mean like Arnie? It's not about politics. It also looks like the GOP in the US is haemorrhaging  over trying to sustain denialist lies.

http://grist.org/climate-energy/theres-an-emerging-right-wing-divide-on-climate-...
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lee
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Re: Climate-change foes winning public opinion war
Reply #40 - Dec 22nd, 2015 at 10:41am
 
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 22nd, 2015 at 8:18am:
It's not about politics.



Tell that to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. It's all about politics.

The SPM, where the document is gone through line-byline, so that it conforms to what the politicians want.

This is then reflected back on to the underlying papers, so that they confirm SPM.
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John_Taverner
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Re: Climate-change foes winning public opinion war
Reply #41 - Dec 22nd, 2015 at 11:07am
 
lee wrote on Dec 22nd, 2015 at 10:41am:
John_Taverner wrote on Dec 22nd, 2015 at 8:18am:
It's not about politics.



Tell that to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. It's all about politics.

The SPM, where the document is gone through line-byline, so that it conforms to what the politicians want.

This is then reflected back on to the underlying papers, so that they confirm SPM.


You're talking about a dumbed down summary of the science?
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Climate-change foes winning public opinion war
Reply #42 - Dec 22nd, 2015 at 11:10am
 
John Taverner!

Since when did you become the Mod of this forum?????

Huh Undecided
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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lee
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Re: Climate-change foes winning public opinion war
Reply #43 - Dec 22nd, 2015 at 11:13am
 
BTW - have you seen this?

'Recent trends in global mean surface air temperature fall outside the 90% range predicted by models using the CMIP5 forcings and scenarios; this recent period of muted warming is dubbed the "hiatus". The hiatus has attracted broad attention in both the popular press and the scientific literature, primarily because of its perceived implications for understanding long-term trends. Many hypotheses have been offered to explain the warming slowdown during the hiatus, and comprehensive studies of this period across multiple variables and spatial scales will likely improve our understanding of the physical mechanisms driving global temperature change and variability.

We argue, however, that decadal temperature trends by themselves are unlikely to constrain future trajectories of global mean temperature and that the hiatus does not significantly revise our understanding of overall climate sensitivity. Instead, we demonstrate that, because of the poorly constrained nature of the hiatus, model-observation disagreements over this period may be resolvable via uncertainties in the observations, modeled internal variability, forcing estimates, or (more likely) some combination of all three factors. We define the hiatus interval as 1998-2012, endpoints judiciously chosen to minimize observed warming by including the large 1998 El Nińo event and excluding 2014, an exceptionally warm year. Such choices are fundamentally subjective and cannot be considered "random", so any probabilistic statements regarding the likelihood of this occurring need to be made carefully. Using this definition, the observed global temperature trend estimates from four datasets fall outside the 5-95% interval predicted by the CMIP5 models. Here we explore some of the plausible explanations for this discrepancy, and show that no unique explanation is likely to fully account for the hiatus.'

http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/abs/ma03110j.html

Seems like the hiatus is alive and well despite Karl et al.

Seems also that the models are not best, despite ealier headlines.

'Global warming slowdown: No systematic errors in climate models'

http://phys.org/news/2015-02-global-slowdown-systematic-errors-climate.html
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Lisa Jones
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Re: Climate-change foes winning public opinion war
Reply #44 - Dec 22nd, 2015 at 11:14am
 
Oh and while you're at it....what are your views re climate change?

BBL.....need to attend to 5 little kids (got a few extra ones today thanks to a busy neighbour).
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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
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