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Is 2 Degrees Heating Acceptable? (Read 7319 times)
Jovial Monk
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Re: Is 2 Degrees Heating Acceptable?
Reply #15 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 1:12pm
 
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 11:21am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 6:41am:
If we rely on the Greens we will have 10°C warming! Greens talk a lot but don’t really do anything, well except for opposing the CPRS and market prices for pollution permits, consequently, thanks to the Greens, there is no action against AGW in Australia today.

Bloody hypocrites!


lol, there isn't much rationale there  Smiley

Feel free to point out where I am wrong, don’t just regurgitate Green talking points!
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Chimp_Logic
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Re: Is 2 Degrees Heating Acceptable?
Reply #16 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 1:32pm
 
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 1:05pm:
Chimp_Logic wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 12:30pm:
If the entire world stopped fossil fuel combustion today, the "dimming" particulates would vanish in several weeks, and there would be an additional ~1 degC increase in average global temperature.


We're assuming, I dare say in this calculation, that the extra CO2 falls out of the sky in about 80 years.

Government departments are guessing 2050 will produce ice free-summers in the arctic.

I suppose(alright, assume  Cheesy Cheesy) they are assuming a more or less constant emissions level from now until then.

With a bit of handwaving and another swig on the double-jacks candyhol:

  - (..wait, let me check todays sea ice extent first  Shocked Shocked)

  - there have been some low numbers but it may take until 2050 to melt out,.. and then only in the summer I suspect but who the frig knows: nothing is linear! The numbers are just inside the two standard deviations boundary,... though seem to be doing sine waves around it  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes which I don't like!

   - I'd still count the situation as desperate as a summer-ice free arctic is big shite! Even if it takes until 2100, which I am appalled to be informed is simply not the reality of our situation.

   


I am referring to particulates and emissions that act as dimming agents in the atmosphere. SO2, fine soot particles etc.

there is almost a 1 degC cooling effect embedded in these dimming agents emitted by the fossil fuel combustion process. (it's similar to volcanic activity bursts which cause a transient coolling effect on the earth)
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Chimp_Logic
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Re: Is 2 Degrees Heating Acceptable?
Reply #17 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 1:46pm
 
Fossil fuels subsidised by $10m a minute, says IMF

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/may/18/fossil-fuel-companies-getting...

‘Shocking’ revelation finds
$5.3 trillion subsidy
estimate for 2015 is greater than the total health spending of all the world’s governments'


...
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: Is 2 Degrees Heating Acceptable?
Reply #18 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 1:54pm
 
Chimp_Logic wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 1:32pm:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 1:05pm:
Chimp_Logic wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 12:30pm:
If the entire world stopped fossil fuel combustion today, the "dimming" particulates would vanish in several weeks, and there would be an additional ~1 degC increase in average global temperature.


We're assuming, I dare say in this calculation, that the extra CO2 falls out of the sky in about 80 years.

Government departments are guessing 2050 will produce ice free-summers in the arctic.

I suppose(alright, assume  Cheesy Cheesy) they are assuming a more or less constant emissions level from now until then.

With a bit of handwaving and another swig on the double-jacks candyhol:

  - (..wait, let me check todays sea ice extent first  Shocked Shocked)

  - there have been some low numbers but it may take until 2050 to melt out,.. and then only in the summer I suspect but who the frig knows: nothing is linear! The numbers are just inside the two standard deviations boundary,... though seem to be doing sine waves around it  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes which I don't like!

   - I'd still count the situation as desperate as a summer-ice free arctic is big shite! Even if it takes until 2100, which I am appalled to be informed is simply not the reality of our situation.

   


I am referring to particulates and emissions that act as dimming agents in the atmosphere. SO2, fine soot particles etc.

there is almost a 1 degC cooling effect embedded in these dimming agents emitted by the fossil fuel combustion process. (it's similar to volcanic activity bursts which cause a transient coolling effect on the earth)

Well that means we're really in the poo..

Shocked

I'd be expecting some serious disinvestment decisions about now. Lookout for resource bottlenecks et al... Elon Musk maybe onto a winner etc...

Cry

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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lee
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Re: Is 2 Degrees Heating Acceptable?
Reply #19 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 7:28pm
 
Chimp_Logic wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 1:32pm:
I am referring to particulates and emissions that act as dimming agents in the atmosphere. SO2, fine soot particles etc.



You mean the global brightening that has been suggested was a root cause of temperature increase in the eighties, due to cleaner air?
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Is 2 Degrees Heating Acceptable?
Reply #20 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 7:45pm
 
No, aerosols that reaches the outer edges of the atmosphere and reflect some sunlight back out.

Clarity of the lower atmosphere, the bit we breath, is too low to affect heating.
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Re: Is 2 Degrees Heating Acceptable?
Reply #21 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 9:06pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 7:45pm:
Clarity of the lower atmosphere, the bit we breath, is too low to affect heating.



I guess trees and grass are to low to affect cooling.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Is 2 Degrees Heating Acceptable?
Reply #22 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 9:09pm
 
You were talking crap—about heating.
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Re: Is 2 Degrees Heating Acceptable?
Reply #23 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 9:44pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 9:09pm:
You were talking crap—about heating.



Whereas you just talk crap.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Is 2 Degrees Heating Acceptable?
Reply #24 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 9:53pm
 
This was crap:
Quote:
You mean the global brightening that has been suggested was a root cause of temperature increase in the eighties, due to cleaner air?


By the time radiation reaches the lower atmosphere it is in the atmosphere.

Clear air gives you colder nights.
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Re: Is 2 Degrees Heating Acceptable?
Reply #25 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 10:00pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 9:53pm:
By the time radiation reaches the lower atmosphere it is in the atmosphere.

Clear air gives you colder nights.



Very good. Can you explain how London smogs disappeared with cleaner air? Smogs - aerosols and fog caused cooling.
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Re: Is 2 Degrees Heating Acceptable?
Reply #26 - Nov 28th, 2015 at 4:09am
 
smog=smoke+fog.

Stop burning coal—no smoke so no smog.
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Re: Is 2 Degrees Heating Acceptable?
Reply #27 - Nov 28th, 2015 at 7:19am
 
____ wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 2:12am:
Undecided2015 will likely be the hottest year on record, according to a preliminary analysis released by the World Meteorological Organization. Worldwide temperatures are expected for the first time to reach more than 1℃ above pre-industrial temperatures.

The five years from 2011-2015 will also likely be the hottest five-year period on record. Average global atmospheric CO₂ concentrations over three months also hit 400 parts per million for the first time during the southern hemisphere Autumn this year. On top of this, we are experiencing one of the strongest El Niño events ever recorded.

According to Dr Karl Braganza, head of climate monitoring at the Australian Bureau of Meteorology, these climate milestones are both symbolic and highly significant.

“One degree is half way to the 2 degree guardrail of warming that the global community is aiming for in terms of future climate change,” Dr Braganza said.

“400 parts per million of CO₂ in the atmosphere is a composition that the climate system has not likely seen in probably the past 2.5 million years.”

In Australia, 2015 is likely to fall into the top 10 warmest years on record, all of which have occurred this century.

Dr Braganza said that record breaking hot weather was now six times more likely than it was early last century. Meanwhile, the oceans continue to warm at an alarming rate.

“About 90% of the additional heat from the advanced greenhouse effect goes into warming the oceans,” he said.

This is particularly worrying as any change to sea temperature is potentially very significant in terms of impacts on Australia’s weather, from droughts to flooding rains.

Dr David Karoly, Professor of Atmospheric Science at the University of Melbourne, said that there was little doubt as to the cause of the warming.

“It is now all but certain that 2015 will be the hottest year since record keeping began.

“The new record high global temperature in 2015 is mainly due to human-caused global warming, with smaller contributions from El Niño and from other natural climate variations,” Dr Karoly said.

According to calculations by Karoly and colleagues as part of the World Weather Attribution Project coordinated by Climate Central, temperatures will likely reach around 1.05℃ above pre-industrial temperatures. Of this, about 1℃ can be attributed to the release of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, about 0.05ºC-0.1ºC to El Niño, and about 0.02ºC to higher solar activity. The numbers don’t quite add up to 1.05℃ due to uncertainties and natural variability.

The World Meteorological Organization statement comes as world leaders are set to meet in Paris next week to begin the next round of negotiations on taking action against climate change.

https://theconversation.com/2015-to-be-hottest-year-ever-world-meteorological-or...


Why are we gambling 2 degree of heating, when we are not sure at what point human extincting runaway global warming kicks in.  Surely, drop our target to 1.5 degrees so to give humanity better odds of seeing out the century.





Greens - watch this video -

you will see that the figures about warming are fake -

you've been conned & so have 99% of most people:


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Jovial Monk
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Re: Is 2 Degrees Heating Acceptable?
Reply #28 - Nov 28th, 2015 at 7:43am
 
In the meantime farmers, who are on the frontline of AGW are changing practices as AGW keeps hitting their properties. ABC24 just now.
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Re: Is 2 Degrees Heating Acceptable?
Reply #29 - Nov 28th, 2015 at 7:57am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 28th, 2015 at 7:43am:
In the meantime farmers, who are on the frontline of AGW are changing practices as AGW keeps hitting their properties. ABC24 just now.



The farmers think they are but in actual fact is just the normal
dry, hot climate of Australia -

the land of drought & flooding rains.


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