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Temperature Data Adjustment (Read 10848 times)
lee
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Re: Temperature Data Adjustment
Reply #15 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 3:05pm
 
Stratos wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 11:53am:
lee wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 11:23am:
Yes, the science says some glaciers are shrinking, some are growing and some are static.


Well that's pretty disingenuous:

Quote:
(0.9%) of them exhibited advancement of snout.
Grin Grin

I'm more curious as to why you think there would be any substantial difference in glaciers between 2001 and 2011, when surface temperatures have remained fairly stable during that time period?



But the meme is CAGW.

So 1700 were stable. 248 retreated and 18 advanced, AGW is so scary.
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: Temperature Data Adjustment
Reply #16 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 1:41pm
 
progressiveslol wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 12:32pm:
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 10:17am:
Th latest trick of the global warming deniers is to try and discredit the scientific data. This is despite the fact that most of the homogenized data has actually resulted in the raw temperatures being reduced.

What can't be disputed however  is the retreat of glaciers since 1850

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_glaciers_since_1850

No matter how much the conservative press like to cherry pick data and argue semantics, photo graphic evidence of glacial retreat is unambiguous evidence that the earth is warming

Climate shifts. Always has always will. In fact in line with that, is that there are losses in parts and gains in other parts of ice extent and of ice gain.

rates of change made your world buddy: get over it  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Temperature Data Adjustment
Reply #17 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 1:48pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 10:56am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 10:53am:
What Ice Age? 2015 is the hottest year on record.




You didn't see my thread on the mini Ice Age with over
250 videos of supporting evidence including graphs & links
to science papers?

forgiven

namaste

You mean the thread that you admit includes fraudulence  Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Re: Temperature Data Adjustment
Reply #18 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 1:55pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 10:17am:
Th latest trick of the global warming deniers is to try and discredit the scientific data. This is despite the fact that most of the homogenized data has actually resulted in the raw temperatures being reduced.

What can't be disputed however  is the retreat of glaciers since 1850

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_glaciers_since_1850

No matter how much the conservative press like to cherry pick data and argue semantics, photo graphic evidence of glacial retreat is unambiguous evidence that the earth is warming

This is the key to divestment: visual proof because we are visual creatures.

The money making movers and shakers don't need proof for them: they need proof for their customers! The money makers have legal obligations to look after the shareholders... not the stakeholders!

Wink

It's a mixed markets problem: regulation of what a money-making entity is and the degree to which- if any  Roll Eyes - it has a legally enforceable social contract


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The_Barnacle
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Re: Temperature Data Adjustment
Reply #19 - Dec 9th, 2015 at 10:10am
 
lee wrote on Dec 6th, 2015 at 11:23am:
Yes, the science says some glaciers are shrinking, some are growing and some are static.



That would have to be the most dishonest answer by Lee to date. The vast majority of the worlds glaciers are receding. The few that aren't are only advancing because of local anomalies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_glaciers_since_1850

Even the Himalayas glaciers are retreating

Quote:
Amid controversy and debate over the precise impact of global warming on the Himalayas, glaciologists analysed a massive cache of data on the mountain range and have concluded that it lost 13 per cent of its glaciers in just four decades.

“What we find is that Karakoram is the only stable range. The others are retreating at different rates.” The investigation also finds that the rate of glacial loss in the Himalayas has accelerated over the decades: from around 9 Gt/year in 1975-85 to 20 Gt/year in 2000-2010. Glaciers are retreating faster in Western Himalaya than in Sikkim, it adds.

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/energy-and-environment/himalayas-lost-13-per-ce...


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lee
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Re: Temperature Data Adjustment
Reply #20 - Dec 9th, 2015 at 10:39am
 
Quote:
That would have to be the most dishonest answer by Lee to date. The vast majority of the worlds glaciers are receding. The few that aren't are only advancing because of local anomalies.],quote],/

[quote author=leeforward link=1448079137/7#7 date=1449365000]I. M. Bahuguna et al, publishing in Current Science [PDF, issue index], studied changes to 2,000 glaciers in various Himalayan regions between 2001 to 2011. They conclude that 1,700 were stable, showing the same surface area and no change of direction.

248 glaciers exhibited a retreat, and 18 an advance. The scientists estimate a net loss of glacier area of about 10,000 km2 – that's a 0.2 per cent decrease (+/- 2.5pc), and an average retreat of 2.1 metres annually.'


So let's recap -
in the Himalayas -
'1,700 were stable'
'248 glaciers exhibited a retreat'
'18 an advance'

So out of 1,966, 248 were in retreat.  12%

'Senior members of the UN's climate science body admit a claim that Himalayan glaciers could melt away by 2035 was unfounded '

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/jan/20/ipcc-himalayan-glaciers-mista...



And this was supposed to be peer-reviewed science; not an opinion piece.
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Re: Temperature Data Adjustment
Reply #21 - Dec 9th, 2015 at 10:55am
 
So many advanced, retreated were stable.

What is the ice loss?
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Re: Temperature Data Adjustment
Reply #22 - Dec 9th, 2015 at 11:01am
 
lee wrote on Dec 9th, 2015 at 10:39am:
So let's recap -
in the Himalayas -
'1,700 were stable'
'248 glaciers exhibited a retreat'
'18 an advance'

So out of 1,966, 248 were in retreat.  12%



Thanks Lee for proving my point about how warming deniers cherry pick their data.

You have provided data from only the Himalaya and only over a 10 year period. Yet still the data shows that the Himalaya is losing ice and this is despite them choosing a 10 year period (2001 - 2011) when warming had briefly slowed.

This does nothing to debunk the fact that the vast majority of the worlds glaciers are retreating which is unambiguous proof that the world is warming.
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lee
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Re: Temperature Data Adjustment
Reply #23 - Dec 9th, 2015 at 11:03am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 9th, 2015 at 10:55am:
So many advanced, retreated were stable.

What is the ice loss?



Good question. With great doubt on GRACE data, pick a number.
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lee
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Re: Temperature Data Adjustment
Reply #24 - Dec 9th, 2015 at 11:12am
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 9th, 2015 at 11:01am:
Thanks Lee for proving my point about how warming deniers cherry pick their data.

You have provided data from only the Himalaya and only over a 10 year period. Yet still the data shows that the Himalaya is losing ice and this is despite them choosing a 10 year period (2001 - 2011) when warming had briefly slowed.

This does nothing to debunk the fact that the vast majority of the worlds glaciers are retreating which is unambiguous proof that the world is warming.



Ok. Show me the data to show I'm wrong,

'Spatial Coverage:
     

Northern and Southern Hemispheres:
Southernmost Latitude: 71.66° S
Northernmost Latitude: 89.30° N
Westernmost Longitude: 179.92° W
Easternmost Longitude: 179.68° E'

'The entire contents of the WGI database are available on the NSIDC FTP site stored in a single comma separated value text file:

    CSV File: wgi_feb2012.csv (39.5 MB).'

https://nsidc.org/data/docs/noaa/g01130_glacier_inventory/

Knock yourself out. Notice the missing data in the Arctic and Antarctic?
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lee
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Re: Temperature Data Adjustment
Reply #25 - Dec 9th, 2015 at 11:15am
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 9th, 2015 at 11:01am:
his is despite them choosing a 10 year period (2001 - 2011) when warming had briefly slowed.


Warming slowed. So a slower warming led to stability?
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Re: Temperature Data Adjustment
Reply #26 - Dec 9th, 2015 at 11:57am
 
lee wrote on Dec 9th, 2015 at 11:12am:
Ok. Show me the data to show I'm wrong,

'Spatial Coverage:
     

Northern and Southern Hemispheres:
Southernmost Latitude: 71.66° S
Northernmost Latitude: 89.30° N
Westernmost Longitude: 179.92° W
Easternmost Longitude: 179.68° E'

'The entire contents of the WGI database are available on the NSIDC FTP site stored in a single comma separated value text file:

    CSV File: wgi_feb2012.csv (39.5 MB).'

https://nsidc.org/data/docs/noaa/g01130_glacier_inventory/

Knock yourself out. Notice the missing data in the Arctic and Antarctic?


I have neither the time nor the inclination to do that. I'll leave that to scientists

Quote:
The world’s glaciers are in retreat. The great tongues of ice high in the Himalayas, the Andes, the Alps and the Rockies are going back uphill at ever greater speeds, according to new research.

And this loss of ice is both accelerating and “historically unprecedented”, say scientists who report in the Journal of Glaciology.

In the past year or so, researchers have identified rapid rises in meltwater and alarming cases of glacial retreat in Greenland, West Antarctica, the Canadian and Alaskan coastal mountains, in Europe and in the Himalayan massif. They have also watched glaciers pick up speed downhill. One satellite-based study, confirmed by on-the-ground measurements, of the Jakobshavn glacier in Greenland, confirms that the river of ice is now moving at the rate of 46 metres a day, 17 kilometres a year, which is twice the speed recorded in 2003, which in turn was twice as fast as measured in 1997.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/aug/04/speed-glacier-retreat-worldwi...

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lee
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Re: Temperature Data Adjustment
Reply #27 - Dec 9th, 2015 at 2:50pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 9th, 2015 at 11:57am:
And this loss of ice is both accelerating and “historically unprecedented”, say scientists who report in the Journal of Glaciology.



This paper is available here-

'Historically unprecedented global glacier decline in the early 21st century'

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/igsoc/jog/2015/00000061/00000228/art00011?...

So early 21st century. Where mine was cherry-picking yours was kosher?

'The dataset on glacier front variations ( ~ 42 000 since 1600) delivers clear evidence that centennial glacier retreat is a global phenomenon.'

HMM, How much of the now known world existed in 1600?

'Intermittent readvance periods at regional and decadal scale are normally restricted to a subsample of glaciers and have not come close to achieving
the maximum positions of the Little Ice Age (or Holocene).'

So global warming since the LIA and we haven't seen much in the way of glacier growth? Unbelievable.

'Glaciological and geodetic observations
( ~ 5200 (
readings)
since 1850) show that the rates of early 21st-century mass loss are without precedent on a global scale'

Yep, by 1850 we knew all of the world's glaciers. 5200/160 years = 32.5 readings / year.

'This was achieved by combining traditional observations with satellite altimetry and gravimetry as a way of filling regional gaps and obtaining global coverage (Gardner and others, 2013).'

Ahh, GRACE again.

'Approximately 47 000 observations from 2300 glaciers are available worldwide, some of them going back as far as the 16th century (Table 1).'

But there are over 2,000 glaciers in the Himalayas alone

and

'From the RGI, we can learn that there are 198,000 glaciers in the World'

http://www.antarcticglaciers.org/glaciers-and-climate/mapping-worlds-glaciers/.

Makes 2300 pale into comparison. At least I was explicit with the Himalayan claim.
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« Last Edit: Dec 9th, 2015 at 4:38pm by lee »  
 
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Re: Temperature Data Adjustment
Reply #28 - Dec 9th, 2015 at 3:07pm
 
...
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lee
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Re: Temperature Data Adjustment
Reply #29 - Dec 9th, 2015 at 4:01pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Dec 9th, 2015 at 3:07pm:



Not a fine enough blade to sculpt a hockey stick
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