Australian Politics Forum - 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21592 Gender:	Re: 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible Reply #45 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 11:00am Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 4^th, 2015 at 10:55am: The driver now is GHGs emitted from our factories, power stations and cars etc etc. You do know that CO2 is a lagging indicator of climate change, don't you? Edit: And with our factories closing down in Australia, it won't be our problem.
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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 62325 Here Gender:	Re: 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible Reply #46 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 11:29am 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible Not surprising the Libs don't take responsibility for anything ?
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Re: 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible
Reply #47 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 11:41am

Maqqa wrote on Nov 4^th, 2015 at 8:28am:

Even if everyone in Australia stopped emit carbon - there's no evidence it will/won't impact climate change by 1 degree

Greens can't produce a list of carbon emission sources and where humans rank on that list in percentage terms

You do realise that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that a majority of LNP voters are completely ignorant of the science behind climate change, right? It's a red herring.

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Kytro

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Re: 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible
Reply #48 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 12:14pm

Swagman wrote on Nov 4^th, 2015 at 10:37am:

Kytro wrote on Nov 4^th, 2015 at 10:17am:

Swagman wrote on Nov 4^th, 2015 at 8:10am:

If climate change is not naturally occurring, how did the climate change before us ape descendants started burning fossil fuels? You know, the other 99.99% of the earth's history.... Roll Eyes

No one is saying the climate hasn't changed in the past without human intervention. They are saying that this time it appears not to be the case based on all available evidence.

The CSIRO is......

Quote:

The CSIRO study found only 28 per cent of Liberal voters believe human activity is responsible for climate change, compared to 58 per cent of Labor voters.

Q -> "Do you believe that human activity is responsible for climate change?" If I was a Liberal Voter I would have voted NO as well.

Human activity is not responsible for climate change. Climate change is natural. The climate will change whether humans exist or not.

Re-phrase the question....

Q "Does human activity have an impact on climate change." If I was a Liberal voter I would have voted YES.

Everything has an impact on climate.

This is the actual study.

It does not ask: "Do you believe that human activity is responsible for climate change?"

It asks if you think about climate change with these answers:

Quote:

Survey respondents were asked to rate which of a series of statements best described their thoughts about
the causes of climate change (Figure 2). Just under half of respondents (45.9%) selected the statement
indicating climate change was largely caused by humans. A further 38.6% indicated they thought it was
happening, but just a natural fluctuation. Smaller proportions selected the option that it was not happening
at all (7.9%) and that they didn’t know (7.7%).

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Armchair_Politician Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 29852 Gender:	Re: 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible Reply #49 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 12:18pm Dnarever wrote on Nov 4^th, 2015 at 11:29am: 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible Not surprising the Libs don't take responsibility for anything ? Sure they do - cleaning up Labor's messes.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible Reply #50 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 12:20pm You mean Libs leaving messes for Labor to clean up!
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Re: 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible
Reply #51 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 12:22pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 4^th, 2015 at 10:55am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Nov 4^th, 2015 at 9:47am:

truth is that the climate changes naturally and doesn't require people or asteroids for that to occur.

That old furphy.

Climate changes when there are drivers for it, climate change does not just happen. The driver now is GHGs emitted from our factories, power stations and cars etc etc.

If you are a Lib and have no brain you STILL have to find a driver for the warming that has been happening for nearly 200 years. You cannot deny CO2/NH4 etc are greenhouse gases, that has been proved in the lab. So—what is the driver for the 200 years of warming?

You idiots are fixated on humans being the cause when it is entirely possible other factors could be the cause, for example the sun or changes to magma activity deep beneath the Earth's crust. There are any number of naturally occurring phenomena that could drive changes in our climate.

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Kytro

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Re: 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible
Reply #52 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 12:28pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Nov 4^th, 2015 at 12:22pm:

You idiots are fixated on humans being the cause when it is entirely possible other factors could be the cause, for example the sun or changes to magma activity deep beneath the Earth's crust. There are any number of naturally occurring phenomena that could drive changes in our climate.

These were not forgotten, there were taken into account and dismissed as lacking evidence.

It is possible there is something that has been missed, of course and that happens to also be correlated with the human induced factors we are tracking against the climate, but so far nobody can find anything else that explains the evidence better.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21592 Gender:	Re: 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible Reply #53 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 12:58pm Kytro wrote on Nov 4^th, 2015 at 12:28pm: but so far nobody can find anything else that explains the evidence better. So correlation is causation. Edit. Natural variation - couldn't explain the warming but can explain the hiatus?
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lee

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Re: 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible
Reply #54 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 1:05pm

'Dr Leviston stressed opinions on climate change were more closely related to deep-seated world views rather than political allegiances.

"Those connections or those relationships we see are explained by quite deep fundamental orientations towards the environment and humans in general," she said.

"I think it's an over simplification to say it's driven by political leanings.'

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-04/majority-of-australians-believe-in-climate...

But it makes for a good story.

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Kytro

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Re: 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible
Reply #55 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 1:11pm

lee wrote on Nov 4^th, 2015 at 12:58pm:

Kytro wrote on Nov 4^th, 2015 at 12:28pm:

but so far nobody can find anything else that explains the evidence better.

So correlation is causation.

Edit. Natural variation - couldn't explain the warming but can explain the hiatus?

Correlation provides for areas of interest. We already know the mechanism by which CO2 could cause a greenhouse effect, and there are measurements that back that up.

The evidence that human activity is causing the world to warm is strong and has been getting stronger over time. This is standard science, prediction and observation.

There isn't any evidence of a hiatus in the temperature trend. It does not have to break records every year for a trend to exist.

To answer your question, natural variability in the climate can cause jumps and dips that appear to slow or speed a trend. This isn't unexplainable, there are reasons behind it.

Natural variation could explain the warming too if there was sufficient evidence linking the natural changes to the trend, but there isn't.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible
Reply #56 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 1:13pm

lee wrote on Nov 4^th, 2015 at 11:00am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 4^th, 2015 at 10:55am:

The driver now is GHGs emitted from our factories, power stations and cars etc etc.

You do know that CO2 is a lagging indicator of climate change, don't you?

Edit: And with our factories closing down in Australia, it won't be our problem.

The view that CO2 is a lagging indicator has long been disproved. I guess denialist websites don’t publish that Cheesy

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible Reply #57 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 1:30pm Greens please show us all a list of top 10 carbon emission sources and where humans rank on that list Do they even make the top 10?
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innocentbystander. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4723 Gender:	Re: 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible Reply #58 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 2:22pm Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 4^th, 2015 at 1:13pm: The view that CO2 is a lagging indicator has long been disproved. When it comes to climate change every single facet has been proven and disproved
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: 72% Of Libs ~ Humans Are Not Responsible Reply #59 - Nov 4^th, 2015 at 2:29pm Maqqa wrote on Nov 4^th, 2015 at 1:30pm: Greens please show us all a list of top 10 carbon emission sources and where humans rank on that list Do they even make the top 10? what is the purpose of DA Gumpy?
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