Australian Politics Forum - NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase

mariacostel

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Re: NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase
Reply #30 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 3:12pm

Kytro wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 2:14pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 11:52am:

Obviously the legislation will need to be passed by both houses but also, it could be passed via a double dissolution bill. That would disable the senate's veto powers. It's a long shot true, but this states agreement is of little to no consequence.

Like I said, I tend to agree. It only matters what all of federal parliament does. The senate is a house of review, but it has almost all the same powers the house of reps does, the main difference being supply.

The big differences is that it cannot form government nor can it initiate revenue matters. They are pretty big differences.

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Kytro Gold Member Offline Blasphemy: a victimless crime Posts: 3409 Adelaide Gender:	Re: NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase Reply #31 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 3:51pm mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 3:12pm: The big differences is that it cannot form government nor can it initiate revenue matters. They are pretty big differences. Yes, of course, but it is still an integral part of the legislative process.
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mariacostel

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Re: NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase
Reply #32 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 4:04pm

Kytro wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 3:51pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 3:12pm:

The big differences is that it cannot form government nor can it initiate revenue matters. They are pretty big differences.

Yes, of course, but it is still an integral part of the legislative process.

Of course, but its only real power is to veto legislation. it cant initiate much and the lower house would veto anyhow.

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crocodile

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Re: NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase
Reply #33 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 5:45pm

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 4:04pm:

Kytro wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 3:51pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 3:12pm:

The big differences is that it cannot form government nor can it initiate revenue matters. They are pretty big differences.

Yes, of course, but it is still an integral part of the legislative process.

Of course, but its only real power is to veto legislation. it cant initiate much and the lower house would veto anyhow.

Senators able to introduce Private Member's Bills.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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mariacostel

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Re: NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase
Reply #34 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 6:04pm

crocodile wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 5:45pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 4:04pm:

Kytro wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 3:51pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 3:12pm:

The big differences is that it cannot form government nor can it initiate revenue matters. They are pretty big differences.

Yes, of course, but it is still an integral part of the legislative process.

Of course, but its only real power is to veto legislation. it cant initiate much and the lower house would veto anyhow.

Senators able to introduce Private Member's Bills.

As long as they are not revenue bills as per Palmers attempt re the Carbon Tax bills. Doesn't amount to much tho, does it? Without party support it wont get thru the senate. Without government support it wont become law. Not a lot of private member bills get anywhere.

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Kytro

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Re: NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase
Reply #35 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 7:12pm

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 4:04pm:

Of course, but its only real power is to veto legislation. it cant initiate much and the lower house would veto anyhow.

It can initiate any legislation except supply. It tends not to do so, but it does have that power. But yes, due to the nature of the HoR they are less likely to be passed.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase
Reply #36 - Oct 19^th, 2015 at 7:14pm

Dnarever wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 2:33pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 19^th, 2015 at 10:32am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 18^th, 2015 at 8:03am:

Wonder if the Baird government understand that this issue could see them in opposition after the next election?

Governments that push for a huge tax increase seldom survive, I doubt that a government as poor as this one would be any different.

With NSW Libs massively popular and the Federal Libs the same way, a GST increase now is as possible as any other time. Having brought in the original GST we all know the economy wont die and people starve as a result.

Bring it on.

Liberals the party of taxation.

Yes - whenever you run up against the brick wall of your own spending and your past ills in cutting the balls off your own revenue via taxation cuts to big business and your mates at the top end of town - always go for the throat of the mass of people. They can afford it because there are more of them so the injury to each will be proportionately smaller.

Longy could explain the maths to us... he's that good!

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 60254 Here Gender:	Re: NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase Reply #37 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 6:29am NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase The likelihood of being able to bully, bribe or blackmail every state and the senate into supporting an increase is still fairly slim.
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crocodile Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6683 Gender:	Re: NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase Reply #38 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 7:04am Dnarever wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 6:29am: NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase The likelihood of being able to bully, bribe or blackmail every state and the senate into supporting an increase is still fairly slim. Good
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mariacostel

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Re: NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase
Reply #39 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 7:18am

Dnarever wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 6:29am:

NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase

The likelihood of being able to bully, bribe or blackmail every state and the senate into supporting an increase is still fairly slim.

The states don't have a say. It is purely Federal Parliament. And if push comes to shove, take it to a Double Dissolution election and it is all done and dusted.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 50188 Gender:	Re: NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase Reply #40 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 7:32am Oh yeah. take a massive increase to taxationof the mass of people to a double dissolution, marvellous way of going into Opposition. While Baird is popular still, the Fed Libs are on 50:50, and the hard heads in the Party understand this even if the fanbois don’t, and so there will be no adventures.
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mariacostel

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Re: NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase
Reply #41 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 8:12am

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 7:32am:

Oh yeah. take a massive increase to taxationof the mass of people to a double dissolution, marvellous way of going into Opposition.

While Baird is popular still, the Fed Libs are on 50:50, and the hard heads in the Party understand this even if the fanbois don’t, and so there will be no adventures.

53/47 loser-boy.

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Dnarever

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Re: NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase
Reply #42 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 10:42am

mariacostel wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 7:18am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 6:29am:

NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase

The likelihood of being able to bully, bribe or blackmail every state and the senate into supporting an increase is still fairly slim.

The states don't have a say. It is purely Federal Parliament. And if push comes to shove, take it to a Double Dissolution election and it is all done and dusted.

The Liberals would never take a broken promise tax grab to a DD election.

That is as captain stupid as you can be.

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Dnarever

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Re: NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase
Reply #43 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 10:44am

mariacostel wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 7:18am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 6:29am:

NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase

The likelihood of being able to bully, bribe or blackmail every state and the senate into supporting an increase is still fairly slim.

The states don't have a say. It is purely Federal Parliament. And if push comes to shove, take it to a Double Dissolution election and it is all done and dusted.

The states don't have a say.

Under the current legislation all states have to agree and the chance of the senate agreeing to change that position is zero.

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mariacostel

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Re: NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase
Reply #44 - Oct 20^th, 2015 at 4:33pm

Dnarever wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 10:44am:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 7:18am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 20^th, 2015 at 6:29am:

NSW To Push Treasurers On GST Increase

The likelihood of being able to bully, bribe or blackmail every state and the senate into supporting an increase is still fairly slim.

The states don't have a say. It is purely Federal Parliament. And if push comes to shove, take it to a Double Dissolution election and it is all done and dusted.

The states don't have a say.

Under the current legislation all states have to agree and the chance of the senate agreeing to change that position is zero.

The states don't actually have the constitutional right to disagree with federal legislation. This has been investigated before and found to be the case. GST is solely the province of the federal government and nothing else.

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