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••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ••• (Read 35434 times)
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #645 - Oct 11th, 2015 at 11:21pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 9th, 2015 at 7:52am:
As I've stated and backed up with evidence, it's in the leaving that gets women undone.

I also stated a page back...that once out, sure they're safER, but they're still not safe.

And unlike the rubbish Mothra has invented in here over the past few pages, any support systems out there remain obscenely underfunded and in some cases defunded.

This has to change.










Have you considered that the leaving without a valid reason, and the often terrible destruction of home, family, and hard-earned worldly goods and security - could and would be the primary reason for a massive response?

You - like many others with no real experience - assume that all women leave relationships because of VIOLENCE  - when the reality is that the very vast majority do not do so at all, but simply because they do not 'feel validated' or because they simply want to, or because in some cases of FAMILY poverty...... their chances for a free run are better by doing so.

Most women do NOT leave relationships because of violence - they leave because they want to, and without any consideration for anyone else involved, including their own children - and the reality is that their leaving for all of these non-reasons, and the dire destruction that this creates - is often the primary mover for massive retaliation by the genuinely aggrieved other party who has done no wrong, but is forced to suffer by government decree when a woman wants to do whatever she wants.
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #646 - Oct 11th, 2015 at 11:34pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 9th, 2015 at 8:00am:
I was thinking along the same lines re Grap's responses in here.

He's been through hell and back.....as a child.

He's still very angry/upset about it all.

Unfortunately, affected children can end up with a double whammy....ie they end up with abusive partners who mirror an abusive parent.



I agree that we who have seen the dragon often have no real measures by which to decide who is 'good' or 'bad' for us.

My two sisters are living proof of that, as am I.

However - that does not in any way remove from others their very real responsibility to behave as mature adults and to keep their promises and such.  If anything, my personal experience shows very clearly that this maturity and responsibility is the main requirement for any solid relationship.

Unfortunately we live in a society in which the lizard brains of most see in any vulnerability an opportunity to gain something for one's self, and many such lizard brains stop at that point.  these are often called 'business people' and politicians, and the like.... but they are only those things in name only.

For example, it has taken me fifteen years to show my 'ex' - for whom I am now the 24/7 carer since there is nobody else - to see that those of my background will die pulling aces out of the pack for those with whom we are associated - and that she had drawn an ace while she was busy calling every card a blank.

I am 66 - I have a job - I work relentlessly at building a better future for us both - and I am failing in health, but only accept that when I am nearly on my knees.  We of that kind are called 'over-achievers' - we have a desire and the ability to over-achieve - and we do so relentlessly.

Is it not time when a society will recognise the genuine merit of those who really do the hard yards?

Do you have any idea how insulting and abusive it is to be labeled as the 'abuser' by some silly trollop when you have endured abuse all your life?

This is the stuff of revolution - you may mark my words.

I will NEVER accept the approach to 'domestic violence' adopted by government here, which has caused so much harm to so many innocents, and has allowed so many trollops to do whatever they want.
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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #647 - Oct 11th, 2015 at 11:39pm
 
**page turner**

...


Can't help it - as a retired *** in the *** it's par for the course
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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #648 - Oct 11th, 2015 at 11:41pm
 
Another page turner...

...


(nothing chauvinist here)....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #649 - Oct 11th, 2015 at 11:46pm
 
cods wrote on Oct 9th, 2015 at 9:25am:
Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 9th, 2015 at 8:00am:
I was thinking along the same lines re Grap's responses in here.

He's been through hell and back.....as a child.

He's still very angry/upset about it all.

Unfortunately, affected children can end up with a double whammy....ie they end up with abusive partners who mirror an abusive parent.







its our self worth... it goes through the floor...I was 17 before I found out someone else had a father like mine...I really did believe my dad was one of a kind...I remember feeling relieved when I heard my friends tale it was just like mine....funny the things that stick with you...

thats why I think we need to encourage the children to be more open about life at home....I dont care what you say.. we can tell sad children from happy children...we need more training in this subject teachers need to be able to pick up things they in most cases spend 12 months with the same children...someone has to show an interest....the parents obviously dont..

we sweep too much under the rug..


You are absolutely correct, cods - but it is not always fathers who are the guilty ones, and our society carries a massive  burden of  guilt over its current way of addressing these things by allocating blame without reason to one group.

For the record - I've been in seven combat zones and have not been to hell and back once - it's just normal - and one thing  the VA say about me is that I am not crazy, being the only one they see who can experience dire things and not have it impact on my real self.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #650 - Oct 11th, 2015 at 11:47pm
 
Aussie wrote on Oct 11th, 2015 at 10:35pm:
'Domestic violence'.....(Sub-continental) Indian style.  Sheesh!



Kinda makes 'withholding the cash' pretty tame. eh?
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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #651 - Oct 12th, 2015 at 12:20am
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 11th, 2015 at 11:21pm:
Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 9th, 2015 at 7:52am:
As I've stated and backed up with evidence, it's in the leaving that gets women undone.

I also stated a page back...that once out, sure they're safER, but they're still not safe.

And unlike the rubbish Mothra has invented in here over the past few pages, any support systems out there remain obscenely underfunded and in some cases defunded.

This has to change.










Have you considered that the leaving without a valid reason, and the often terrible destruction of home, family, and hard-earned worldly goods and security - could and would be the primary reason for a massive response?

You - like many others with no real experience - assume that all women leave relationships because of VIOLENCE  - when the reality is that the very vast majority do not do so at all, but simply because they do not 'feel validated' or because they simply want to, or because in some cases of FAMILY poverty...... their chances for a free run are better by doing so.

Most women do NOT leave relationships because of violence - they leave because they want to, and without any consideration for anyone else involved, including their own children - and the reality is that their leaving for all of these non-reasons, and the dire destruction that this creates - is often the primary mover for massive retaliation by the genuinely aggrieved other party who has done no wrong, but is forced to suffer by government decree when a woman wants to do whatever she wants.


Exactly Indeed. That novel "Live , love, travel" has caused more divorces than any DV in this modern western era.  If there is money available to fulfil some lame assed dream, then you can betya bottom dollar that there will be a lot of lame assed takers.

So guys, puhlease, keep control of the money if you want to keep control of the relationship. It's life 1.01....never trust! Ever never ever!

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #652 - Oct 12th, 2015 at 9:59pm
 
Phemanderac wrote on Oct 8th, 2015 at 9:53pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 8th, 2015 at 8:50pm:
Specific behaviours need to be stated, along with a reason why said behaviours are wrong.


ANY behaviour where one person exerts control over another person by use of threat, intimidation, coercion, isolation, withholding, direct force or violence would be an example of abuse of power...

If you really need a why to that, no one has the right to force another person to do their bidding... Seems pretty wrong to most people.


Getting better, but it's still abstract without concrete examples.
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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #653 - Oct 12th, 2015 at 10:07pm
 
mothra wrote on Oct 8th, 2015 at 9:59pm:
Phemanderac wrote on Oct 8th, 2015 at 9:53pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 8th, 2015 at 8:50pm:
Specific behaviours need to be stated, along with a reason why said behaviours are wrong.


ANY behaviour where one person exerts control over another person by use of threat, intimidation, coercion, isolation, withholding, direct force or violence would be an example of abuse of power...

If you really need a why to that, no one has the right to force another person to do their bidding... Seems pretty wrong to most people.



Precisely. An abuse of power.

What else could family violence be but an abuse of power?

It takes power to subjugate another person.


You've gone from "power", to an "imbalance of power", and now to an "abuse of power". All three mean nothing without, not only concrete examples, but reasons why such phenomena is wrong. You're delving into moral philosophy without even realising it.

Quote:
This is not a feminist principle, it's common sense.



It is indeed a feminist principle. 2nd and 3rd wave feminism is grounded in post-structural philosophy, which is dominated by "theories of power".
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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #654 - Oct 13th, 2015 at 4:51am
 
cods wrote on Oct 9th, 2015 at 9:25am:
Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 9th, 2015 at 8:00am:
I was thinking along the same lines re Grap's responses in here.

He's been through hell and back.....as a child.

He's still very angry/upset about it all.

Unfortunately, affected children can end up with a double whammy....ie they end up with abusive partners who mirror an abusive parent.







its our self worth... it goes through the floor...I was 17 before I found out someone else had a father like mine...I really did believe my dad was one of a kind...I remember feeling relieved when I heard my friends tale it was just like mine....funny the things that stick with you...

thats why I think we need to encourage the children to be more open about life at home....I dont care what you say.. we can tell sad children from happy children...we need more training in this subject teachers need to be able to pick up things they in most cases spend 12 months with the same children...someone has to show an interest....the parents obviously dont..

we sweep too much under the rug..


Just read your post and felt like giving you one of these :

((((( hugs )))))

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #655 - Oct 13th, 2015 at 3:09pm
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 11th, 2015 at 11:46pm:
You are absolutely correct, cods - but it is not always fathers who are the guilty ones, and our society carries a massive  burden of  guilt over its current way of addressing these things by allocating blame without reason to one group.



grap.. we have to be fair dinkum about this the stats tell us it is mostly men.. I am not pointing the finger at any group and I dont think the title of this thread is either...

but in my own experience it was my DAD..in your case it was your mum...it covers all areas...sadly...and I am sorry you see this as a BLAME thread I would much rather we tried to find ways to change the attitude or whatever it is that gives either sex the right to abuse someone else....

I remember in my own home.. if voices were going to be raised mum w ent round shutting doors and windows..... after many years my brother said to mum dont shut the windows let the neighbours know what goes on... and she did..she even chased him down the hall one day and threw a milk bottle after him as he went down the front steps...my mum all of 5f.2. and dad 6ft 2... .. did it change anything he was still an miserable old sod but he knew mum could give him some of it back......she just left it all too late of course...is throwing a milk bottle.. [and missing] domestic violence  I guess he would have had a case today... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

my mum left it too late  we have to nip things in the bud.....stop it..
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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #656 - Oct 13th, 2015 at 5:00pm
 
I think we are getting away from my point - that continuing the current approach of vilifying and blaming men exclusively has not worked and never will, and is itself the cause of the escalation in violence between men and women and within families.

I took the ex - for whom I am carer - to a dental appointment at a community health centre today - while she was getting re-fanged, I glanced over the DV literature.

Not one addressed the issues in any even-handed manner and all are addicted to the same old 'men v women' concept that has caused and is causing so terribly much strife.

One classic was a pamphlet asking men if their behaviour was causing problems and offering them 'assistance' for 'their' problems- there was nothing similar directed at women....

NOBODY asks women if THEIR behaviour is causing problems, and NOBODY directs women to assistance with THEIR problems.

Men are to blame for everything it seems, and denial will not change that reality.

While ever this continues there will be no clear way ahead.
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #657 - Oct 13th, 2015 at 5:37pm
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 13th, 2015 at 5:00pm:
I think we are getting away from my point - that continuing the current approach of vilifying and blaming men exclusively has not worked and never will, and is itself the cause of the escalation in violence between men and women and within families.

I took the ex - for whom I am carer - to a dental appointment at a community health centre today - while she was getting re-fanged, I glanced over the DV literature.

Not one addressed the issues in any even-handed manner and all are addicted to the same old 'men v women' concept that has caused and is causing so terribly much strife.

One classic was a pamphlet asking men if their behaviour was causing problems and offering them 'assistance' for 'their' problems- there was nothing similar directed at women....

NOBODY asks women if THEIR behaviour is causing problems, and NOBODY directs women to assistance with THEIR problems.

Men are to blame for everything it seems, and denial will not change that reality.

While ever this continues there will be no clear way ahead.


Spot on the money.  Enter any Police Station vestibule and you will see exactly the same biased crap.
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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #658 - Oct 13th, 2015 at 6:52pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 12th, 2015 at 9:59pm:
Phemanderac wrote on Oct 8th, 2015 at 9:53pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 8th, 2015 at 8:50pm:
Specific behaviours need to be stated, along with a reason why said behaviours are wrong.


ANY behaviour where one person exerts control over another person by use of threat, intimidation, coercion, isolation, withholding, direct force or violence would be an example of abuse of power...

If you really need a why to that, no one has the right to force another person to do their bidding... Seems pretty wrong to most people.


Getting better, but it's still abstract without concrete examples.


How about:-  "I'll get the cops on you if you don't do the washing up and give me the credit card, I'll take the kids, have you thrown out of the house, and have you black-listed for any decent job!"
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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #659 - Oct 13th, 2015 at 7:35pm
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 13th, 2015 at 6:52pm:
How about:-  "I'll get the cops on you if you don't do the washing up and give me the credit card, I'll take the kids, have you thrown out of the house, and have you black-listed for any decent job!"


I would run the other way, far, far away. Then I'd never let it get to that point - I would have been gone long ago.
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