Australian Politics Forum - ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #630 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 6:59am

Agnes wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 1:57am:

I'm sorry Mothra, there is no classic text book rules about this.. it is both and I have known women who have experienced it both ways- not all women rely on avo's, they are almost worthless in the real word..a man who is intent on wrecking you takes no notice there fore avo's carry little weight. Btw most men if not all , who come on this thread are not here to serioulsy argue the point, they are just making a case for men somehow being the victim, in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

ttfn

What about the women who are intent on wrecking men? Is there no protection there?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #631 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 7:06am

Agnes wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 1:57am:

I'm sorry Mothra, there is no classic text book rules about this.. it is both and I have known women who have experienced it both ways- not all women rely on avo's, they are almost worthless in the real word..a man who is intent on wrecking you takes no notice there fore avo's carry little weight. Btw most men if not all , who come on this thread are not here to serioulsy argue the point, they are just making a case for men somehow being the victim, in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

ttfn

Could that be that there is simply no interpretation under the current regime of 'men v women' for men to even be viewed as victims, and that there are no figures ever compiled to show how and when and where they are the victims?

Do you seriously think that some silly bird having the 'right' to call the cops and claim violence with no evidence, resulting in a man being bashed, fitted up and possibly imprisoned, as well as being socially, economically, and emotionally disadvantaged for life does not create victims?

I think many here arguing for one side need to get out into the real world for a change, and take an honest look at many of the things that are going on.

Nobody denies that a minority of women are bashed etc - but that in no way justifies draconian measures against any and every man who has a finger pointed at him without proof.

Those last two words are the nub of this matter - without proof.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Lisa Jones

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #632 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 7:12am

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 12:35am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 11:21pm:

The most dangerous time is when a woman is TRYING to leave an abusive relationship.

If anyone doubts this fact, too bad.

It is however the case.

And as I've stated elsewhere, our case studies at Uni keep highlighting this recurring issue.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=v15h6HcnNAAC&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=most+dange...

Physical Danger

The most dangerous time in a violent relationship is when the victim ATTEMPTS TO LEAVE.

Ok....night.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #633 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 7:15am

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 12:15am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 11:38pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 11:21pm:

The most dangerous time is when a woman is TRYING to leave an abusive relationship.

If anyone doubts this fact, too bad.

It is however the case.

And as I've stated elsewhere, our case studies at Uni keep highlighting this recurring issue.

Mothra is quite correct. Perpetrators of domestic violence who kill their victims do so when they have lost control, for the most part. When a victim has removed themselves and/or their children, from the situation or when a woman finds a new partner, they are in more danger than at any other time.

Most women who are leaving know the danger, or even overestimate it because that is what happens to victims....perpetrators seem omnipotent. As a result, victims leave when its as safe as possible.

No. It is in the process of trying to get out....that women face the most dangerous period within a DV relationship.

Once out, they are safER but yeah they are still a long way from being and feeling safe.

Now re the loss of power and control ... it starts where? At the point where a woman starts trying to leave.

Anyway....there's a lot of women who are no longer with us. I know these women only as case studies. Case studies of women who tried but could not get out alive.

Their struggle... Cry

The whole thing makes me so angry.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #634 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 7:17am

Amadd wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 12:52am:

Get real. Women love to sell the drama and propagate lies.

There's nothing more a woman loves than being fought over. They really love that poo.

If they can sell the drama to their so called "friends" in order to make themselves appear the more sought after, then they will do so.
They instigate that poo all the time and they are either too blind or too stupid to even see the idiocy of their actions.

Let's face it. Western women are hardly a beast to admire. The world would be absolutely buggered if they were given real control. Luckily, they're just being played with.

Attention seeker! I doubt you yourself believe half of what you've just posted.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #635 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 7:22am

Amadd wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 2:30am:

Keep massaging those egos...until those presses become harder and harder, until you are inflicting pain upon your fellow woman...just as you were born to do.
You and Agnes have no real friendship. In no time at all, you'll be at each other trying to prove who is the more worthy to men.

..And where is the sanctuary for the hard working husband who comes home to see his wife blowing the neighbor because he just doesn't understand those "Mills and Boon" novels?

Agnes is in here trying to advocate for peace and common sense...using FACTS.

Mothra is in here because her ongoing cluelessness has been yet again fully exposed and she's got the $hIt$ BIG TIME.

You're here to stir the pot of $hit that Mothra's been cooking for over 6 hrs lol.

And as such, that makes YOU The $hIt Stirrer lol Tongue

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Lisa Jones

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #636 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 7:29am

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 6:59am:

Agnes wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 1:57am:

I'm sorry Mothra, there is no classic text book rules about this.. it is both and I have known women who have experienced it both ways- not all women rely on avo's, they are almost worthless in the real word..a man who is intent on wrecking you takes no notice there fore avo's carry little weight. Btw most men if not all , who come on this thread are not here to serioulsy argue the point, they are just making a case for men somehow being the victim, in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

ttfn

What about the women who are intent on wrecking men? Is there no protection there?

Yes.

If you live in NSW....

Call the Domestic Violence Line

Straight off their website...

If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, you can ring the Domestic Violence Line for help on 1800 656 463 (TTY 1800 671 442).

The Domestic Violence Line is a statewide free-call number and is available 24 hours, seven days a week.

If you're in immediate danger though, call the police on 000.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Phemanderac

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #637 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 7:41am

OK so that's a wee bit of a silly argument.

Clearly the evidence indicates that both leaving and/or the threat of leaving elevate the danger to a victim of Relationship violence...

For example, if I change one word in Lisa's "Google" search we get this from the same book....

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=MWOSqx2NBIAC&pg=PT147&dq=most+dangerous+tim...

"Experts in the field explain that separation or retreat can be the most dangerous time in the relationship for victims of domestic violence..."

It also goes on to point out that murder can be triggered by walk out or threat to walk out...

Now it seems to me that the obvious conclusion to draw from that are that victims of Domestic violence are in danger, pure and simple...

There are support services (and yes, they're mostly for women at the moment and that needs to change), but clearly, not enough. There are strategies, but clearly, not effective for everyone.

The bottom line is, this is an issue in all of our communities, one which no matter which way we look at it, we are still not getting it right.

Apparently it's just not as easy as saying no to violence!

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On the 26th of January you are all invited to celebrate little white penal day...

"They're not rules as such, more like guidelines" Pirates of the Caribbean..

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cods

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #638 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 7:48am

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 6:58am:

Thing is this - in most cases this 'trying to get out' is, in reality, nothing more than 'not feeling validated any more' in the marriage/relationship - and has nothing to do with any violence.

So when a woman 'wants to find herself' etc, it is not she who is the victim - it is those she is leaving, who, in most cases on factual data, have done nothing wrong other than not cater to her whims.

Is it any wonder that the impending disaster to family, home, and all the things built up over the years can be the cause of a response of trying to constrain that woman?

Perhaps we need to look again at the Grappler policy of installing the rule that the person who wishes to leave, in the absence of genuine evidence of genuine abuse, goes without the family, their home and so forth and heads out into the big wide world to 'find herself' (or himself in the minority of cases), and pays child support and has visiting rights until they come to their senses.

The current claiming of every ebb and flow of a relationship in the real world and between two allegedly adult and consenting people, as 'violence' but only against one, simply has to cease and sense be allowed to prevail.

The alternative is war between men and women, with the State setting fair to cop its share of the fighting and the casualties, since it is the main instigator of this absurd current approach.

EVERYONE needs to take a few steps back - take a few deep breaths, and actually start to apply reason for a change - and not just continue with this insane control of relationships by emotion.

sounds good .. however grap it comes across that you are judging women b y your experience with your mum..whom by you own words was sick...you had a bad childood because of your mum I had a sad childhood thanks to my dad..... we can both gang up on the opposite sex...but I had a smashing husband and he was the best dad...so I wont be doing that...I think the lord every day for finding my man... and I dont hate my dad I have moved on.. in fact I feel sorry for him because he missed out on so much.. but he has gone now so I wont bad dad him anymore..

I now go by what I read every day in the media..

I have had very little to do with D.V. just on the fringe if you like...but I am not dumb enough to know its on the increase and the violence is affecting the children more and more..children living in fear or dread.. makes me sick thinking about it..

as adults we have to do something about this..

leaving is a daft idea... not many leave of their own accord...its usually the courts that decide that in itself is a long process..

as adults we have to grow up...stop the blame game...

grap when it come to emotions and being unstable there isnt much to choose between the sexes...

men do terrible things and so do women..

there is no excuses for either...

we have a duty to our kids...and we are failing them..

the kids I think are the answer... maybe take the children from the violent home...

that would shock everyone wouldnt it?..

these parents! these ugly parents should be forced to go to parenting classes... and mediation classes... to be shown what they are putting their children through..... and if they find it too hard to change their ways...then thats it.. only the parent that will change will have the children.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #639 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 7:52am

As I've stated and backed up with evidence, it's in the leaving that gets women undone.

I also stated a page back...that once out, sure they're safER, but they're still not safe.

And unlike the rubbish Mothra has invented in here over the past few pages, any support systems out there remain obscenely underfunded and in some cases defunded.

This has to change.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #640 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 8:00am

cods wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 7:48am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 6:58am:

Thing is this - in most cases this 'trying to get out' is, in reality, nothing more than 'not feeling validated any more' in the marriage/relationship - and has nothing to do with any violence.

So when a woman 'wants to find herself' etc, it is not she who is the victim - it is those she is leaving, who, in most cases on factual data, have done nothing wrong other than not cater to her whims.

Is it any wonder that the impending disaster to family, home, and all the things built up over the years can be the cause of a response of trying to constrain that woman?

Perhaps we need to look again at the Grappler policy of installing the rule that the person who wishes to leave, in the absence of genuine evidence of genuine abuse, goes without the family, their home and so forth and heads out into the big wide world to 'find herself' (or himself in the minority of cases), and pays child support and has visiting rights until they come to their senses.

The current claiming of every ebb and flow of a relationship in the real world and between two allegedly adult and consenting people, as 'violence' but only against one, simply has to cease and sense be allowed to prevail.

The alternative is war between men and women, with the State setting fair to cop its share of the fighting and the casualties, since it is the main instigator of this absurd current approach.

EVERYONE needs to take a few steps back - take a few deep breaths, and actually start to apply reason for a change - and not just continue with this insane control of relationships by emotion.

sounds good .. however grap it comes across that you are judging women b y your experience with your mum..whom by you own words was sick...you had a bad childood because of your mum I had a sad childhood thanks to my dad..... we can both gang up on the opposite sex...but I had a smashing husband and he was the best dad...so I wont be doing that...I think the lord every day for finding my man... and I dont hate my dad I have moved on.. in fact I feel sorry for him because he missed out on so much.. but he has gone now so I wont bad dad him anymore..

I now go by what I read every day in the media..

I have had very little to do with D.V. just on the fringe if you like...but I am not dumb enough to know its on the increase and the violence is affecting the children more and more..children living in fear or dread.. makes me sick thinking about it..

as adults we have to do something about this..

leaving is a daft idea... not many leave of their own accord...its usually the courts that decide that in itself is a long process..

as adults we have to grow up...stop the blame game...

grap when it come to emotions and being unstable there isnt much to choose between the sexes...

men do terrible things and so do women..

there is no excuses for either...

we have a duty to our kids...and we are failing them..

the kids I think are the answer... maybe take the children from the violent home...

that would shock everyone wouldnt it?..

these parents! these ugly parents should be forced to go to parenting classes... and mediation classes... to be shown what they are putting their children through..... and if they find it too hard to change their ways...then thats it.. only the parent that will change will have the children.

I was thinking along the same lines re Grap's responses in here.

He's been through hell and back.....as a child.

He's still very angry/upset about it all.

Unfortunately, affected children can end up with a double whammy....ie they end up with abusive partners who mirror an abusive parent.

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cods

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #641 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 8:07am

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 7:41am:

K so that's a wee bit of a silly argument.

Clearly the evidence indicates that both leaving and/or the threat of leaving elevate the danger to a victim of Relationship violence...

For example, if I change one word in Lisa's "Google" search we get this from the same book....

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=MWOSqx2NBIAC&pg=PT147&dq=most+dangerous+tim
...

"Experts in the field explain that separation or retreat can be the most dangerous time in the relationship for victims of domestic violence..."

It also goes on to point out that murder can be triggered by walk out or threat to walk out...

Now it seems to me that the obvious conclusion to draw from that are that victims of Domestic violence are in danger, pure and simple...

There are support services (and yes, they're mostly for women at the moment and that needs to change), but clearly, not enough. There are strategies, but clearly, not effective for everyone.

The bottom line is, this is an issue in all of our communities, one which no matter which way we look at it, we are still not getting it right.

Apparently it's just not as easy as saying no to violence

do you really think many men would go to a mens refuge?????.. battered men I mean?... my argument is.. we cant keep running away... and thats what leaving is....

a lot of the problem is the silence....women puttin g on a brave face for everyone.. as if their marriage is perfect..probably the same with the man..in reverse.

we dont talk about these issues...as mental abuse is just as bad......my mum never talked about what we went through...children need to feel comfortable talking about something like what life is like at home...I think we need to change our thinking like.. "its none of my business"..its not my place to interfere.. he/shes my friend they are a good person..

a man kills his wife and children then himself... In a small community like Lockhart. everyone knew him and his family...everyone says what a great person he was....... ??????.....I dont think he was great they just dont want to face the truth.......the sad facts are there are always warning signs...maybe the children could have spoken out to someone..I dont know.. I wish I did... all I know is....a lot of people would have to be asking themselves... what did we miss.

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Amadd

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #642 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 9:14am

Quote:

Agnes is in here trying to advocate for peace and common sense...using FACTS.

Mothra is in here because her ongoing cluelessness has been yet again fully exposed and she's got the $hIt$ BIG TIME.

You're here to stir the pot of $hit that Mothra's been cooking for over 6 hrs lol.

And as such, that makes YOU The $hIt Stirrer lol Tongue

Furry muff Cool

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cods

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #643 - Oct 9^th, 2015 at 9:25am

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 9^th, 2015 at 8:00am:

I was thinking along the same lines re Grap's responses in here.

He's been through hell and back.....as a child.

He's still very angry/upset about it all.

Unfortunately, affected children can end up with a double whammy....ie they end up with abusive partners who mirror an abusive parent.

its our self worth... it goes through the floor...I was 17 before I found out someone else had a father like mine...I really did believe my dad was one of a kind...I remember feeling relieved when I heard my friends tale it was just like mine....funny the things that stick with you...

thats why I think we need to encourage the children to be more open about life at home....I dont care what you say.. we can tell sad children from happy children...we need more training in this subject teachers need to be able to pick up things they in most cases spend 12 months with the same children...someone has to show an interest....the parents obviously dont..

we sweep too much under the rug..

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39225 Gender:	Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ••• Reply #644 - Oct 11^th, 2015 at 10:35pm 'Domestic violence'.....(Sub-continental) Indian style. Sheesh!
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