Australian Politics Forum - ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••

mariacostel

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #555 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 5:09pm

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:57pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:46pm:

This kind of response will bring out the loons and especially those that never had kids. I have no problems with the concept or application of discipline. It makes kids stronger, healthier and more capable of facing the world. It makes the understand boundaries and limitations. And obviously the question you really want to answer is 'do I support smacking'? Yes I do and so do the majority of parents who raised kids well.

OK so discipline = punishment...

Meh, not up to me to decide right or wrong, but I don't agree with that meaning of discipline...

Discipline is to teach I think...

As to smacking, it happens, however, if that is the only tool you use (which does not seem to be the case in reading your response) it has problems and won't get the desired outcome, consistently.

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:46pm:

Teaching respect is taught my emulation. Parents treat each other and the family with respect and most of the message gets through. Often it still needs to be discussed why you do this, that and the other thing for kids, but the principles of right and wrong, politeness and respect are taught practically rather than via lecturing. And yes, sometimes a disrespectful kids gets a smack.

Awesome, so, in a nutshell, mostly by role modelling.

There are very effective alternatives to a smack too, just by the way. But role modelling, the best teacher of our kids...

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:46pm:

Did I cover it?

To be honest, I think you know you did, but thank you (sincerely) for your answer.

Like I said, it's not up to me to say that's right or wrong, hell, they're your kids, it's your life etc etc...But I am ok with not totally agreeing too.

So, thanks again for your answer.

You are correct that discipline is more than punishment. It is in fact teaching a lifestyle of doing the right thing, the hard thing, the unpleasant thing and the rewarding thing. But discipline is also punishment although the absence of discipline generally brings its own negative consequences (punishments) anyhow.

Smacking is not where you start with discipline but it is certainly a tool and an effective one. Sometimes, it is the only thing that works. I have a smile on my face recalling a number of young mums who said they wouldn't smack and then when their toddler (or older) had terrible behaviour found out by trial and error that a few well placed well-times smacks can short-circuit a tantrum very quickly.

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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ••• Reply #556 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 5:10pm UH OH, page not turning.... It's kind of exciting really isn't it?
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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ••• Reply #557 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 5:10pm UH OH, page not turning.... OK, so a bit less exciting now...
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mariacostel

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #558 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 5:11pm

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 5:02pm:

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:42pm:

The quoted bit is a bit ambiguous and a bit over-stated as well.

So then, simply put, you won't find a course that does not have a theoretical basis to it...

mariacostel wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 4:42pm:

It is common to do things that we know work while not understanding why. My nature is to want to know why, but my understanding is not necessary for something to work just the same.

Sure. However, when we speak specifically of courses, particularly in the field of relationships, violence and in particular relationship violence, that is not ever the case...

As such, this is not an area where "find a course that works for you etc...." will occur. ALL of these courses have a theoretical basis, therefore, that will explain very clearly why the concepts, practices and skills taught will work...

Like I said though, even the most thoroughly researched and deeply evidence based course will NOT work for every single individual. On the other side of that though, every individual will be able to find something that works for them if they're committed to the search...

IN the field of behaviour you can find a lot of ideas that have almost no theoretical backing to them at all. Child behavioural models are full of some of the most idiotic concepts around.

Anyhow... good chat!

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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ••• Reply #559 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 5:11pm KICK That's a big kick...
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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ••• Reply #560 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 5:12pm Phemanderac wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 5:11pm: KICK That's a big kick... To turn the page that was
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Phemanderac Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3507 Gender:	Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ••• Reply #561 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 5:14pm Um, theories are ideas... But yes, thanks it was a nice chat.
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #562 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 5:56pm

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 7:23am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 7^th, 2015 at 9:35pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2015 at 6:07pm:

Family violence is about power. More importantly, it is about a power imbalance.

This is why it is so dangerous and so insidious.

The partner that perpetrates violence usually has more power in the relationship and uses that power to violent ends.

Again with the "power" theories.
Power exists in all human interactions. It is not power itself that is bad, nor is a power imbalance bad - especially given that people have different talents and interests. It is behaviours that need examination. Undesirable behaviour is what should be the focus. Endless theorising about power won't correct domestic violence. Feminism's obsession with Foucault and other post-structuralist thinkers leads to a dead end.

Yep, and one of those key behaviours is "ABUSE" of power...

i.e. Exploiting a power imbalance to the point it causes harm to another person...

That's the exact behaviour being talked about when "power" is mentioned...

Could you seriously not work that out?

.. and is precisely why disturbing the balance of power within a fluid relationship of allegedly adult persons by permitting the massive intervention of the State without proper licence is precisely the reason it is all blowing up in everyone's faces.

Adding the potential and the reality of extreme violence to any equation where there may be a small and temporary disturbance of the balance of power within a relationship is a guarantee of that relationship erupting.

You wanna argue that calling the cops to someone over some trivial issue as a means of instill fear into them is not violence? It's assault...... keep thinking.

There are many forms of violence - you're closer than you think, Grasshopper - just a few more steps and you will have the proper all-encompassing view of what actually constitutes violence in these situations - and why extreme responses are growing in volume and frequency.

We will NOT get there by perpetuating the myth that FAMILY violence involves ONLY men v women, when the truth is patently different. The Guv have been striving for over twenty years to reduce family violence by attacking men first - often for little or no reason - and the only result to date is a massive escalation of violence of all kinds within relationships between men and women.

Time for a re-think.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 87680 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ••• Reply #563 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 5:59pm The above entertainment brought to you by non-chauvinist Grappler Enterprises Inc - as a community service while page turner rests....
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 87680 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ••• Reply #564 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 6:01pm ... and in the interests of equal treatment - here's one for the butch lesbian community out there in Ga-Galand.... .. ain't I a rat fink?....not that there's anything wrong with that.....
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 87680 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ••• Reply #565 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 6:34pm .. and now to give some of the older patrons a thrill long forgotten... Grappler Entrprises Inc is a non-profit organisation dedicated to filling in the space between page turns on OzPol.. as a public service... unlike Tony's government as it wasted time - WE provide entertainment.... (snuckle)...
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 87680 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ••• Reply #566 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 6:38pm .. and for for our finale.....
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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #567 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 8:50pm

Phemanderac wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 7:23am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 7^th, 2015 at 9:35pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2015 at 6:07pm:

Family violence is about power. More importantly, it is about a power imbalance.

This is why it is so dangerous and so insidious.

The partner that perpetrates violence usually has more power in the relationship and uses that power to violent ends.

Again with the "power" theories.
Power exists in all human interactions. It is not power itself that is bad, nor is a power imbalance bad - especially given that people have different talents and interests. It is behaviours that need examination. Undesirable behaviour is what should be the focus. Endless theorising about power won't correct domestic violence. Feminism's obsession with Foucault and other post-structuralist thinkers leads to a dead end.

Yep, and one of those key behaviours is "ABUSE" of power...

i.e. Exploiting a power imbalance to the point it causes harm to another person...

That's the exact behaviour being talked about when "power" is mentioned...

Could you seriously not work that out?

You're merely skirting around the issue. Specific behaviours need to be stated, along with a reason why said behaviours are wrong.

You're probably not up to date with feminist theories of power, but this is what they do. They often disregard specific acts and reduce it all to power. It leads nowhere.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #568 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 8:50pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 7:22am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 7^th, 2015 at 10:17pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 7^th, 2015 at 2:11pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7^th, 2015 at 10:21am:

★★★★ IN BREAKING NEWS ★★★★

PM committed to introduce Respectful Relationship Education in the curriculums of all Australian schools from Kindergarten to Year 10 by 2017.

They already cover it in Humanities and Social Sciences.

How to react to certain situations.

The right way to respond to situations.

It covers bullying.

lol. Does it? Where?

From Kindergarten right through.

Now it has a name Respectful Relationship Education woopee!!!!

Didn't your teacher tell you not to push and shove in the playground or not to wreck other people's stuff?

Were you taught in sex education that no means no?

Students read story books that cover respectful relationships right through their schooling. My Grade three class (a few years back) were learning about family relationships and how every family is different. and what makes you happy or sad in the family relationship.

Where in the Humanities and Social Sciences do they cover this?

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: ••• DOMESTIC VIOLENCE •••
Reply #569 - Oct 8^th, 2015 at 8:52pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 8^th, 2015 at 11:28am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Oct 7^th, 2015 at 9:35pm:

mothra wrote on Oct 6^th, 2015 at 6:07pm:

Family violence is about power. More importantly, it is about a power imbalance.

This is why it is so dangerous and so insidious.

The partner that perpetrates violence usually has more power in the relationship and uses that power to violent ends.

Again with the "power" theories.
Power exists in all human interactions. It is not power itself that is bad, nor is a power imbalance bad - especially given that people have different talents and interests. It is behaviours that need examination. Undesirable behaviour is what should be the focus. Endless theorising about power won't correct domestic violence. Feminism's obsession with Foucault and other post-structuralist thinkers leads to a dead end.

Well I'm currently finding that power theorizing can waste a lot of time as it often side tracks the discussion into theoretical perspectives instead of practical outcomes.

Yes. Exactly. This is what post-structuralist philosophy does, from which the 2nd and 3rd waves of feminism grow.

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