Australian Politics Forum - Lib's Massive Tax Hike

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Lib's Massive Tax Hike
Jul 21^st, 2015 at 7:26am

Numbers crunched on potential GST rise

Calls to lift the GST to 15 per cent could add several thousand dollars to the average household's annual budget.

NSW Premier Mike Baird has broached the idea ahead of Wednesday's federal and state leaders' meeting, but wants to put in place compensation measures to ensure low income earners aren't disadvantaged.

Figures crunched by Curtin University's economics centre and published in The West Australian show a 15 per cent GST would increase the average household's costs by $3987 a year.

Households in the bottom 20 per cent income tier would be $1755 a year worse off while the richest would face an increase of $6307 in costs a year.

Modelling by the University of Canberra's National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling estimates the average household would be up for an extra $2915 a year, the Financial Review reports.

au.finance.yahoo.com/news/numbers-crunched-potential-gst-rise-204508427.html

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Lib's Massive Tax Hike
Reply #1 - Jul 21^st, 2015 at 7:32am

____ wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 7:26am:

Numbers crunched on potential GST rise

Calls to lift the GST to 15 per cent could add several thousand dollars to the average household's annual budget.

NSW Premier Mike Baird has broached the idea ahead of Wednesday's federal and state leaders' meeting, but wants to put in place compensation measures to ensure low income earners aren't disadvantaged.

Figures crunched by Curtin University's economics centre and published in The West Australian show a 15 per cent GST would increase the average household's costs by $3987 a year.

Households in the bottom 20 per cent income tier would be $1755 a year worse off while the richest would face an increase of $6307 in costs a year.

Modelling by the University of Canberra's National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling estimates the average household would be up for an extra $2915 a year, the Financial Review reports.

au.finance.yahoo.com/news/numbers-crunched-potential-gst-rise-204508427.html

Leading economists have suggested that households in the low socio-economic bracket could be better off with tax cuts proposed by Baird to compensate them for the increased GST. It's also the fairest way to tax, as everyone pays the same amount of GST regardless of their income. Remember that even at 15%, our GST would still be one of the lowest in the world.

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____ Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 33410 Australia Gender:	Re: Lib's Massive Tax Hike Reply #2 - Jul 21^st, 2015 at 7:39am Leading economists ... you chose to ignore them for your scare campaign against Labor's carbon tax. So what leading economists are you speaking for?
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Lib's Massive Tax Hike Reply #3 - Jul 21^st, 2015 at 9:10am ____ wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 7:39am: So what leading economists are you speaking for? I think he's referring to Hockey
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____ Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 33410 Australia Gender:	Re: Lib's Massive Tax Hike Reply #4 - Jul 21^st, 2015 at 9:28am Fairs, fair. Hockey now understand the bad economics of bronwyn. Someone must be tutoring him.
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Bam

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Re: Lib's Massive Tax Hike
Reply #5 - Jul 21^st, 2015 at 9:35am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 7:32am:

____ wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 7:26am:

Numbers crunched on potential GST rise

Calls to lift the GST to 15 per cent could add several thousand dollars to the average household's annual budget.

NSW Premier Mike Baird has broached the idea ahead of Wednesday's federal and state leaders' meeting, but wants to put in place compensation measures to ensure low income earners aren't disadvantaged.

Figures crunched by Curtin University's economics centre and published in The West Australian show a 15 per cent GST would increase the average household's costs by $3987 a year.

Households in the bottom 20 per cent income tier would be $1755 a year worse off while the richest would face an increase of $6307 in costs a year.

Modelling by the University of Canberra's National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling estimates the average household would be up for an extra $2915 a year, the Financial Review reports.

au.finance.yahoo.com/news/numbers-crunched-potential-gst-rise-204508427.html

Leading economists have suggested that households in the low socio-economic bracket could be better off with tax cuts proposed by Baird to compensate them for the increased GST. It's also the fairest way to tax, as everyone pays the same amount of GST regardless of their income. Remember that even at 15%, our GST would still be one of the lowest in the world.

Why do you pay attention to these "leading economists" now? We could use the exact same economists and come up with a completely different outcome. It's all to do with the underlying assumptions. What are these?

It's not a fair tax for several reasons.

Ordinary consumers pay the GST while businesses can pass it on in full, even for items that the business consumes itself. If we abolished this deduction, we could force corporations like Google, Microsoft etc that currently transfer-price their way out of the tax system to pay SOME tax. Input costs that the business marks up could retain the current exemption. But why should businesses be claiming the GST on their toilet paper etc as a deduction? Businesses are consumers too.

It is a highly regressive tax that hits the poor disproportionately hard. Otherwise why would Baird have to discuss compensation measures? Increasing the Medicare levy is an alternative that can also be considered. Few people would disagree with that, especially if it came with sweeteners; the return of bulk billing for many procedures and the introduction of bulk billing dentists.

If you want to get more money for health, then abolish the private health insurance rebate. That would add $5 billion a year to the health budget and eliminate some unnecessary red tape. Redirect that money to reducing the cost of healthcare, and it would reduce the costs to providers so they can cut their premiums at no cost to themselves.

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longweekend58

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Re: Lib's Massive Tax Hike
Reply #6 - Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:27am

Bam wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 9:35am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 7:32am:

____ wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 7:26am:

Numbers crunched on potential GST rise

Calls to lift the GST to 15 per cent could add several thousand dollars to the average household's annual budget.

NSW Premier Mike Baird has broached the idea ahead of Wednesday's federal and state leaders' meeting, but wants to put in place compensation measures to ensure low income earners aren't disadvantaged.

Figures crunched by Curtin University's economics centre and published in The West Australian show a 15 per cent GST would increase the average household's costs by $3987 a year.

Households in the bottom 20 per cent income tier would be $1755 a year worse off while the richest would face an increase of $6307 in costs a year.

Modelling by the University of Canberra's National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling estimates the average household would be up for an extra $2915 a year, the Financial Review reports.

au.finance.yahoo.com/news/numbers-crunched-potential-gst-rise-204508427.html

Leading economists have suggested that households in the low socio-economic bracket could be better off with tax cuts proposed by Baird to compensate them for the increased GST. It's also the fairest way to tax, as everyone pays the same amount of GST regardless of their income. Remember that even at 15%, our GST would still be one of the lowest in the world.

Why do you pay attention to these "leading economists" now? We could use the exact same economists and come up with a completely different outcome. It's all to do with the underlying assumptions. What are these?

It's not a fair tax for several reasons.

Ordinary consumers pay the GST while businesses can pass it on in full, even for items that the business consumes itself. If we abolished this deduction, we could force corporations like Google, Microsoft etc that currently transfer-price their way out of the tax system to pay SOME tax. Input costs that the business marks up could retain the current exemption. But why should businesses be claiming the GST on their toilet paper etc as a deduction? Businesses are consumers too.

It is a highly regressive tax that hits the poor disproportionately hard. Otherwise why would Baird have to discuss compensation measures? Increasing the Medicare levy is an alternative that can also be considered. Few people would disagree with that, especially if it came with sweeteners; the return of bulk billing for many procedures and the introduction of bulk billing dentists.

If you want to get more money for health, then abolish the private health insurance rebate. That would add $5 billion a year to the health budget and eliminate some unnecessary red tape. Redirect that money to reducing the cost of healthcare, and it would reduce the costs to providers so they can cut their premiums at no cost to themselves.

again with the business-hating. EVERYTHING a business buys is an input cost to its final output. you cannot just arbitrarily take away GST deductions without significantly raising costs on the ultimate product or service.

the GST is a fabulous tax that gets into the cash economy and even the black economy. Even criminals have to buy things and therefore pay tax on it.

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Lib's Massive Tax Hike
Reply #7 - Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:39am

Just increase the medicare levy, funnily enough when Bob Baldwin was asked about this today he evaded answering like it was the plague.

The facts are the GST hits lower income earners hardest, raising the medicare levy hits the wealthy the hardest and actually goes to the stated reason for these tax hikes instead of consolidated slush fund Revenue.

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longweekend58

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Re: Lib's Massive Tax Hike
Reply #8 - Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:52am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:39am:

Just increase the medicare levy, funnily enough when Bob Baldwin was asked about this today he evaded answering like it was the plague.

The facts are the GST hits lower income earners hardest, raising the medicare levy hits the wealthy the hardest and actually goes to the stated reason for these tax hikes instead of consolidated slush fund Revenue.

that is a thoroughly ridiculous argument. the gst and medicare levy are BOTH fixed rate levies with exceptions for medicare at the lower and upper end only.

But you applauded the carbon tax and its compensation but a GST increase with complete compensation is somehow evil?

But I admit I had a giggle when I read that you think the medicare levy goes directly to health care and not consolidated revenue. Really? that naive?

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aquascoot

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Re: Lib's Massive Tax Hike
Reply #9 - Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:56am

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:52am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:39am:

Just increase the medicare levy, funnily enough when Bob Baldwin was asked about this today he evaded answering like it was the plague.

The facts are the GST hits lower income earners hardest, raising the medicare levy hits the wealthy the hardest and actually goes to the stated reason for these tax hikes instead of consolidated slush fund Revenue.

that is a thoroughly ridiculous argument. the gst and medicare levy are BOTH fixed rate levies with exceptions for medicare at the lower and upper end only.

But you applauded the carbon tax and its compensation but a GST increase with complete compensation is somehow evil?

But I admit I had a giggle when I read that you think the medicare levy goes directly to health care and not consolidated revenue. Really? that naive?

Yes, a common misconception. the medicare levy would be lucky to cover 10% of the cost of healthcare

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Lib's Massive Tax Hike
Reply #10 - Jul 21^st, 2015 at 11:06am

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:52am:

that is a thoroughly ridiculous argument. the gst and medicare levy are BOTH fixed rate levies with exceptions for medicare at the lower and upper end only.

It would seem contradiction is the new vogue, can you pick it?

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:52am:

But you applauded the carbon tax and its compensation but a GST increase with complete compensation is somehow evil?

Not evil just dispositionally unfair to the lower end as usual, but hey when they actually detail this compo package we might have more to discuss, or not.
You will recall that I did say OVERcompensating for the CT was stupid & the package covered far too many.

Why all of a sudden do the states need more GST revenue for health?( have you watched Baird vid? health is his excuse)
Maybe because Tones cut the funding by 80 billion
How much of our taxation $$ are being used for Direct Action??
And I wonder where some of that money came from???

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:52am:

But I admit I had a giggle when I read that you think the medicare levy goes directly to health care and not consolidated revenue. Really? that naive?

No again it comes down to accountability, pretty easy to track the money raised by a yearly levey on all PAYE taxpayers than a broad increase to a GST across the whole economy.
But then accountability is not a strong point of any politician in the major parties or it would seem with their supporters either.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: Lib's Massive Tax Hike
Reply #11 - Jul 21^st, 2015 at 11:10am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 7:32am:

____ wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 7:26am:

Numbers crunched on potential GST rise

Calls to lift the GST to 15 per cent could add several thousand dollars to the average household's annual budget.

NSW Premier Mike Baird has broached the idea ahead of Wednesday's federal and state leaders' meeting, but wants to put in place compensation measures to ensure low income earners aren't disadvantaged.

Figures crunched by Curtin University's economics centre and published in The West Australian show a 15 per cent GST would increase the average household's costs by $3987 a year.

Households in the bottom 20 per cent income tier would be $1755 a year worse off while the richest would face an increase of $6307 in costs a year.

Modelling by the University of Canberra's National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling estimates the average household would be up for an extra $2915 a year, the Financial Review reports.

au.finance.yahoo.com/news/numbers-crunched-potential-gst-rise-204508427.html

Leading economists have suggested that households in the low socio-economic bracket could be better off with tax cuts proposed by Baird to compensate them for the increased GST. It's also the fairest way to tax, as everyone pays the same amount of GST regardless of their income. Remember that even at 15%, our GST would still be one of the lowest in the world.

and these 'tax cuts' would be where? which taxes would be involved?

I pay ZERO income tax right now - how would an income tax cut help me in any way other than to pay the government 5% more every time I buy something? My next luxury car going to cost me less? My next chopper flight cheaper?

bugger Baird! Wouldn't fart in his fat cat direction if he were becalmed on Pittwater and surrounded by hungry Great Whites...

Not tell me again how pensioners will benefit from rising GST?

Not At All! We will simply be paying more and more and more tax until we have nothing.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: Lib's Massive Tax Hike
Reply #12 - Jul 21^st, 2015 at 11:17am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 10:39am:

Just increase the medicare levy, funnily enough when Bob Baldwin was asked about this today he evaded answering like it was the plague.

The facts are the GST hits lower income earners hardest, raising the medicare levy hits the wealthy the hardest and actually goes to the stated reason for these tax hikes instead of consolidated slush fund Revenue.

Why not just dump the GST and go back to the pre-GST tax rates adjusted to today's realities?

All this shuffling of deck chairs has done nothing of value.

longie says it gets into the black market - WTS difference does that make when all it does is raise the costs for everyone else as much anyway? No benefit for the majority of cleanskins there at all in any way.

The crook mob still paid tax on a car or on a beer or whatever... you don't cop GST on a drug transaction...

The GST was sold on a pack of lies and was only ever intended to benefit government bottom line - something we, the people, are not in the business of doing just for them - they are there, rather, to do it for us, and we are not milch cows for their endless voracity.

Ban the GST and restore income tax rates - I have reservations about the Medicare levy as a just tax - even Swag and I agree sometimes... why should a person pay twice for the same service? Private and public? Not as simple as that I know, but still...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: Lib's Massive Tax Hike
Reply #13 - Jul 21^st, 2015 at 11:59am

Besides - I thought Baird was The Great White Hope and would save us all by flogging off our poles and lines and raise 'Twenty BILL-YUN Dullahs' to fund infrastructure (through more privatised ventures that cost us an arm and a leg to support his mates who are the CEOs and board members), thus saving New South Wales from the clutches of those dreadful Labor governments.

BTW - which part of any additional spending that Labor put in - say - more pony money for women's issues etc - has Baird actually knocked out?

Not One Bit!

Why is it that somehow - despite all this sellout - NSW desperately needs more cash by imposing a further tax on the peons?

Just more lies from politicians...... lies - all lies..... and obviously ToJo think they can trade on Mike Baby's 'popularity' to push this insanity over the line.....

Not on my watch, ToJo! Stick your GST and cut your own spending on non-essentials like your never-ending sponging off the public coffers.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Lib's Massive Tax Hike
Reply #14 - Jul 21^st, 2015 at 12:06pm

Why do we have to reform the tax system if we want to make heath care sustainable. Are you sure we're not reforming the tax system to make corporate and small business tax rate cuts sustainable and corporate and small business welfare sustainable, and health care rebates that go straight into the pockets of health care funds, sustainable. A few months ago this stinking govt handed over a 1.5 tax cut to the commercial sector and expanded the already obscenely generous tax deductions to business and next year Abbott hopes to win the election by giving hand outs of tax cuts to mainly the big end of town (because they always get the lions share of tax cuts). Make no mistake this lying govt has dressed up this GST tax increase as an effort to make health care sustainable when in really it's yet another money grab by the rich and the business unions that run the LNP.

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