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Blade Runner out of Jail? (Read 3617 times)
gizmo_2655
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Re: Blade Runner out of Jail?
Reply #30 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:19pm
 
Setanta wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 10:31pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 10:26pm:
Even if there was an unknown intruder in the toilet with the light on how did Oscar know his life was in danger....One would expect a real and present threat to blast holes in someone!!!

Huh Huh Huh


I cannot accept his story. If he claimed/was diagnosed a paranoid schiz, maybe, but then he shouldn't have a firearm. He shot her, he knew she was in there, you don't fire through a closed toilet door, late at night, with your loved one in the domicile unless you know exactly where she is, I'm pretty sure he did.



Again, the prosecution never managed to prove he 'knew' she was in the toilet, he always stated that to his knowledge, she was in the bedroom, behind him.
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

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Setanta
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Re: Blade Runner out of Jail?
Reply #31 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:28pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:17pm:
Aussie wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 10:15pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 10:05pm:
Alinta wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 7:25pm:


Not surprised either, but very disappointed. The prosecution case never even got close to proving murder. Manslaughter was the correct verdict IMO.


Pig's arse.  If you reckon someone is behind a door and you shoot through the door.....what is your intent other than to put a bullet into anyone behind the door?




And the definition of murder requires intent to kill a particular victim, doesn't it??
Shooting at person A and unintentionally killing person B is manslaughter, not murder.


I think it's rather obvious he knew who he was shooting at.

I ask you, if you thought there was an intruder in the dunny, an invader of your home, not someone you loved, who was coincidently not accounted for, before action was taken, "Hey, love, I heard something(smacks empty bed), get down beside the bed or out on the balcony, I don't want you hurt because "I'm going in!"

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Maqqa
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Re: Blade Runner out of Jail?
Reply #32 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:29pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:19pm:
Setanta wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 10:31pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 10:26pm:
Even if there was an unknown intruder in the toilet with the light on how did Oscar know his life was in danger....One would expect a real and present threat to blast holes in someone!!!

Huh Huh Huh


I cannot accept his story. If he claimed/was diagnosed a paranoid schiz, maybe, but then he shouldn't have a firearm. He shot her, he knew she was in there, you don't fire through a closed toilet door, late at night, with your loved one in the domicile unless you know exactly where she is, I'm pretty sure he did.



Again, the prosecution never managed to prove he 'knew' she was in the toilet, he always stated that to his knowledge, she was in the bedroom, behind him.


Funny isn't it

He claimed she was behind him

But no one alive to testify otherwise so they took his word for it

But the fact that she's dead - does not then make his story invalid?
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Blade Runner out of Jail?
Reply #33 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:31pm
 
Maqqa wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:29pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:19pm:
Setanta wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 10:31pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 10:26pm:
Even if there was an unknown intruder in the toilet with the light on how did Oscar know his life was in danger....One would expect a real and present threat to blast holes in someone!!!

Huh Huh Huh


I cannot accept his story. If he claimed/was diagnosed a paranoid schiz, maybe, but then he shouldn't have a firearm. He shot her, he knew she was in there, you don't fire through a closed toilet door, late at night, with your loved one in the domicile unless you know exactly where she is, I'm pretty sure he did.



Again, the prosecution never managed to prove he 'knew' she was in the toilet, he always stated that to his knowledge, she was in the bedroom, behind him.


Funny isn't it

He claimed she was behind him

But no one alive to testify otherwise so they took his word for it

But the fact that she's dead - does not then make his story invalid?


No, his story was always that he shot at what he thought to be an intruder, or intruders and accidently shot her instead. He never denied that he had shot her.
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Maqqa
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Re: Blade Runner out of Jail?
Reply #34 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:37pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:31pm:
No, his story was always that he shot at what he thought to be an intruder, or intruders and accidently shot her instead. He never denied that he had shot her.


They seem to assume no intent and the prosecutor has to prove intent
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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Blade Runner out of Jail?
Reply #35 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:41pm
 
Maqqa wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:37pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:31pm:
No, his story was always that he shot at what he thought to be an intruder, or intruders and accidently shot her instead. He never denied that he had shot her.


They seem to assume no intent and the prosecutor has to prove intent


Which they failed to do, hence the original manslaughter conviction.
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Blade Runner out of Jail?
Reply #36 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:47pm
 
Setanta wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:28pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:17pm:
Aussie wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 10:15pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 10:05pm:
Alinta wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 7:25pm:


Not surprised either, but very disappointed. The prosecution case never even got close to proving murder. Manslaughter was the correct verdict IMO.


Pig's arse.  If you reckon someone is behind a door and you shoot through the door.....what is your intent other than to put a bullet into anyone behind the door?




And the definition of murder requires intent to kill a particular victim, doesn't it??
Shooting at person A and unintentionally killing person B is manslaughter, not murder.


I think it's rather obvious he knew who he was shooting at.

I ask you, if you thought there was an intruder in the dunny, an invader of your home, not someone you loved, who was coincidently not accounted for, before action was taken, "Hey, love, I heard something(smacks empty bed), get down beside the bed or out on the balcony, I don't want you hurt because "I'm going in!"



According to his statement, he went (with his pistol) to check on a noise. When it appeared there was one or more intruders in the toilet, he then yelled at his girlfriend to stay where she was, and then told the 'intruder/s to come out or he'd shoot'.

A perfectly viable series of events. There'd be no reason to wake up the other person until you knew whether the noise was a potential danger, or a tree branch tapping on the window (for example) or something equally harmless.
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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Setanta
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Re: Blade Runner out of Jail?
Reply #37 - Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:57pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:47pm:
According to his statement, he went (with his pistol) to check on a noise. When it appeared there was one or more intruders in the toilet, he then yelled at his girlfriend to stay where she was, and then told the 'intruder/s to come out or he'd shoot'.

A perfectly viable series of events. There'd be no reason to wake up the other person until you knew whether the noise was a potential danger, or a tree branch tapping on the window (for example) or something equally harmless.


You're not trying to pull my leg are you? Is that what you would do?

You don't know where your loved one is but you tell her to stay there. You also tell her, I presume, that you are arming yourself to check it out. You get no response and rather than wake her and give her directions, get confirmation, you head to the dunny with your firearm.

Really?

Edit: I hope you are not a "more firearms" proponent. Great responsibility...
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Re: Blade Runner out of Jail?
Reply #38 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 12:33am
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Blade Runner out of Jail?
Reply #39 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 6:22am
 
Setanta wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:57pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:47pm:
According to his statement, he went (with his pistol) to check on a noise. When it appeared there was one or more intruders in the toilet, he then yelled at his girlfriend to stay where she was, and then told the 'intruder/s to come out or he'd shoot'.

A perfectly viable series of events. There'd be no reason to wake up the other person until you knew whether the noise was a potential danger, or a tree branch tapping on the window (for example) or something equally harmless.


You're not trying to pull my leg are you? Is that what you would do?

You don't know where your loved one is but you tell her to stay there. You also tell her, I presume, that you are arming yourself to check it out. You get no response and rather than wake her and give her directions, get confirmation, you head to the dunny with your firearm.

Really?

Edit: I hope you are not a "more firearms" proponent. Great responsibility...


Perhaps you should read what I actually wrote???
You have the sequence backwards.....he'd ALREADY left the bedroom with the gun well before he thought it necessary to wake her up.

That's a fairly standard sort of behaviour, to be honest. If I hear odd noises at night, I don't immediately awaken everyone else in the house before I go to investigate. After all, most of the time it's likely to be nothing.
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Blade Runner out of Jail?
Reply #40 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 7:16am
 
Oscar appears jail bound. The Appeals Judge found fault in the trial hearings and findings.

Looks like Oscar is headed for the high jump, hope he takes his blades with him, he'll need them.

Who says white men can't jump?
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Re: Blade Runner out of Jail?
Reply #41 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 7:30am
 
Why is the media wasting so much time on this? He's guilty. Go Straight to Jail. Do not pass Go. (and hopefully that's the last we hear of the whining  little bastard)
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Re: Blade Runner out of Jail?
Reply #42 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 7:33am
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:47pm:
Setanta wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:28pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:17pm:
Aussie wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 10:15pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 10:05pm:
Alinta wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 7:25pm:


Not surprised either, but very disappointed. The prosecution case never even got close to proving murder. Manslaughter was the correct verdict IMO.


Pig's arse.  If you reckon someone is behind a door and you shoot through the door.....what is your intent other than to put a bullet into anyone behind the door?




And the definition of murder requires intent to kill a particular victim, doesn't it??
Shooting at person A and unintentionally killing person B is manslaughter, not murder.


I think it's rather obvious he knew who he was shooting at.

I ask you, if you thought there was an intruder in the dunny, an invader of your home, not someone you loved, who was coincidently not accounted for, before action was taken, "Hey, love, I heard something(smacks empty bed), get down beside the bed or out on the balcony, I don't want you hurt because "I'm going in!"



According to his statement, he went (with his pistol) to check on a noise. When it appeared there was one or more intruders in the toilet, he then yelled at his girlfriend to stay where she was, and then told the 'intruder/s to come out or he'd shoot'.

A perfectly viable series of events. There'd be no reason to wake up the other person until you knew whether the noise was a potential danger, or a tree branch tapping on the window (for example) or something equally harmless.


What I don't understand is why Reva said nothing when Oscar yelled at his girlfriend to stay where she was, and then told the 'intruder/s to come out or he'd shoot'.... Why does Oscar scream like a woman....Blasting holes in someone without a clear and present threat to one's safety is murder IMO....Perhaps Oscar thought someone was going to steal his toilet paper???

Huh Huh Huh
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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Blade Runner out of Jail?
Reply #43 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 8:24am
 
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 7:33am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:47pm:
Setanta wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:28pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:17pm:
Aussie wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 10:15pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 10:05pm:
Alinta wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 7:25pm:


Not surprised either, but very disappointed. The prosecution case never even got close to proving murder. Manslaughter was the correct verdict IMO.


Pig's arse.  If you reckon someone is behind a door and you shoot through the door.....what is your intent other than to put a bullet into anyone behind the door?




And the definition of murder requires intent to kill a particular victim, doesn't it??
Shooting at person A and unintentionally killing person B is manslaughter, not murder.


I think it's rather obvious he knew who he was shooting at.

I ask you, if you thought there was an intruder in the dunny, an invader of your home, not someone you loved, who was coincidently not accounted for, before action was taken, "Hey, love, I heard something(smacks empty bed), get down beside the bed or out on the balcony, I don't want you hurt because "I'm going in!"



According to his statement, he went (with his pistol) to check on a noise. When it appeared there was one or more intruders in the toilet, he then yelled at his girlfriend to stay where she was, and then told the 'intruder/s to come out or he'd shoot'.

A perfectly viable series of events. There'd be no reason to wake up the other person until you knew whether the noise was a potential danger, or a tree branch tapping on the window (for example) or something equally harmless.


What I don't understand is why Reva said nothing when Oscar yelled at his girlfriend to stay where she was, and then told the 'intruder/s to come out or he'd shoot'.... Why does Oscar scream like a woman....Blasting holes in someone without a clear and present threat to one's safety is murder IMO....Perhaps Oscar thought someone was going to steal his toilet paper???

Huh Huh Huh


Perhaps because she didn't want to let the intruder/s know where she was.
And in SA, the laws are slightly different...

"The right to defend yourself
In common law, the controlling principle on the right to use force to defend one’s self or one’s property is proportionality: the defensive act may not be more harmful than necessary to ward off the attack. Although there are no hard and fast rules, courts weigh up the interests protected by the defensive act against the interests infringed by the unlawful attack.

In determining whether a crime victim acted reasonably, the courts judge each case on its own merits. Certainly, an owner who is confronted by a robber is not expected to abandon his property. He is entitled to protect it, and the court will consider all the circumstances2 when deciding whether the means of defending the property were reasonable.

This right to self-protection can provide a defence to a charge of assault or even, in some cases, murder. Our law allows you to defend yourself, another person, your property or the property of another against a current or imminent unlawful attack.3 When a person pleads private defence, his claim is that the injury he caused was, in the circumstances, lawful and permissible."

https://www.issafrica.org/pubs/CrimeQ/No.8/duPlessis.htm

Also remember..this is a disabled man who thought he was the only thing between his girlfriend and a group of potential rapists and/or murderers..
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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cods
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Re: Blade Runner out of Jail?
Reply #44 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 8:32am
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 4th, 2015 at 6:22am:
Setanta wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:57pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Dec 3rd, 2015 at 11:47pm:
According to his statement, he went (with his pistol) to check on a noise. When it appeared there was one or more intruders in the toilet, he then yelled at his girlfriend to stay where she was, and then told the 'intruder/s to come out or he'd shoot'.

A perfectly viable series of events. There'd be no reason to wake up the other person until you knew whether the noise was a potential danger, or a tree branch tapping on the window (for example) or something equally harmless.


You're not trying to pull my leg are you? Is that what you would do?

You don't know where your loved one is but you tell her to stay there. You also tell her, I presume, that you are arming yourself to check it out. You get no response and rather than wake her and give her directions, get confirmation, you head to the dunny with your firearm.

Really?

Edit: I hope you are not a "more firearms" proponent. Great responsibility...


Perhaps you should read what I actually wrote???
You have the sequence backwards.....he'd ALREADY left the bedroom with the gun well before he thought it necessary to wake her up.

That's a fairly standard sort of behaviour, to be honest. If I hear odd noises at night, I don't immediately awaken everyone else in the house before I go to investigate. After all, most of the time it's likely to be nothing.



sorry gizmo but we are not talking Australia we are talking Pretoria SA...where they lived in a secured guarded house.....but where crime was high on the list......[guns handy]

do you or would you... grab a GUN in the dark to check out a noise???????.... I dont think so...

but by all accounts its the first thing you do in  Pretoria....

he was ANGRY... 4 shots tells me he didnt want anyone to leave that room alive....he had plenty of time  to ring for help....

had he been on the inside of the door shooting out I could maybe give him a glimmer of doubt....

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