Australian Politics Forum - They stopped the boats???

Aussie

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #90 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 8:15am

You have a funny way of marking your own homework.

Quote:

A lawyer who doesnt know people need a visa to enter Australia legally and who doesnt know the difference between unlawful and illegal. Its like you wanted to be owned.

You will not find one post made by me here which asserts any position about the need for a visa or (other than the comment about semantics) on the difference between unlawful and illegal.

What I did ask, and what you have yet to produce, is for a live link to the section of the Act which backs up your bold assertion:

Quote:

The immigration act clearly states that anyone entering Austyralia without a valid visa does so illegally.

Will you be producing that anytime soon, Rhino?

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Neferti

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #91 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 8:31am

John Smith wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 7:13pm:

Neferti wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 6:58pm:

If you have no idea what LEGISLATION people are talking about, use Google and Fetch it yourself, Aussie, LLB.

Here's a hint

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ma1958118/

rather long document for one to search through, why don't you highlight the part you think is relevant?

You could start by looking at the sections about VISAS. Wink

Division 3--Visas for non-citizens

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John Smith

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #92 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 10:03am

Neferti wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 8:31am:

John Smith wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 7:13pm:

Neferti wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 6:58pm:

If you have no idea what LEGISLATION people are talking about, use Google and Fetch it yourself, Aussie, LLB.

Here's a hint

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ma1958118/

rather long document for one to search through, why don't you highlight the part you think is relevant?

You could start by looking at the sections about VISAS. Wink

Division 3--Visas for non-citizens

instead of telling me where to look, why don't you simply put up the relevant section?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #93 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 10:05am

rhino wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 8:30pm:

John Smith wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 8:04pm:

rhino wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 7:19pm:

Heres what ABC fact check states

Quote:

Scott Morrison correct on 'illegal entry' of people without a visa

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-06/morrison-correct-illegal-entry-people/4935372

you missed this bit on that link

Experts contacted by ABC Fact Check say it is not appropriate to use "illegal" when specifically describing asylum seekers or refugees.

Professor Jane McAdam, director of the International Refugee and Migration Law Project at the University of New South Wales, says that "asylum seekers are not illegal under international law".

"By ratifying the Refugee Convention, governments agree precisely not to treat asylum seekers as illegal," Professor McAdam said.

Professor Andreas Schloenhardt, from the University of Queensland law school took a similar view, saying "the terms 'asylum seeker' and 'illegal' should not be used together or in the same sentence".

a refugee advocate saying it is " not appropriate" doesnt negate the facts John. Good try though. Better than Ozzys . At least you had something. And you arent even a lawyer. How about that.

so I'm going to take your word for it over TWO professors of law? not in this lifetime I'm not Cheesy

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #94 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 10:06am

rhino wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 8:33pm:

John Smith wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 8:08pm:

Grendel wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 7:31pm:

Good grief.... no visa you are illegal... that is clear and certain.

the only thing certain is your level of stupidity ... an asylum seeker entering Australia without a visa is UNLAWFUL, not illegal

.

Fair enough. whats the difference John? I mean the entire legal fraternity in Australia says they are illegal, what do you know that they dont?

what a load of rubbish ... i just put up quotes from two professors of law (members of the legal fraternity) that disagree with you

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Neferti Gold Member Offline Posts: 7965 Canberra Gender:	Re: They stopped the boats??? Reply #95 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 10:28am
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longweekend58

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #96 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am

John Smith wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 10:05am:

rhino wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 8:30pm:

John Smith wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 8:04pm:

rhino wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 7:19pm:

Heres what ABC fact check states

Quote:

Scott Morrison correct on 'illegal entry' of people without a visa

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-06/morrison-correct-illegal-entry-people/4935372

you missed this bit on that link

Experts contacted by ABC Fact Check say it is not appropriate to use "illegal" when specifically describing asylum seekers or refugees.

Professor Jane McAdam, director of the International Refugee and Migration Law Project at the University of New South Wales, says that "asylum seekers are not illegal under international law".

"By ratifying the Refugee Convention, governments agree precisely not to treat asylum seekers as illegal," Professor McAdam said.

Professor Andreas Schloenhardt, from the University of Queensland law school took a similar view, saying "the terms 'asylum seeker' and 'illegal' should not be used together or in the same sentence".

a refugee advocate saying it is " not appropriate" doesnt negate the facts John. Good try though. Better than Ozzys . At least you had something. And you arent even a lawyer. How about that.

so I'm going to take your word for it over TWO professors of law? not in this lifetime I'm not Cheesy

there were some mighty fine legal distinctions made in those comments. the second one simply said 'should not' ie an opinion, not law. the first said asylum SEEKING was not illegal and no one said it was. He carefully avoided the fact that entering australia outside of a designated arrival zone and without a visa is illegal.

they clearly hoped readers would be as stupid as most clearly are rather than people with the ability to think and see legal wording trying to make you think the opposite of the truth.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39902 Gender:	Re: They stopped the boats??? Reply #97 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:07am Neferti wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 10:28am: http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/images/g/h/7/3/h/p/image.related.articleLeadNa... I interpret that as putting shite on Abbott!
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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 36512 Gender:	Re: They stopped the boats??? Reply #98 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:23am Therer is a difference between illegal and unlawful and it's very simple. Unlawful is not a criminal act. Illegal is. They are not synonyms. They are distinct words with distinct meanings. Entering this country without a visa is not a criminal act, therefore not illegal.
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Baronvonrort Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20755 Gender:	Re: They stopped the boats??? Reply #99 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:33am mothra wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:23am: Entering this country without a visa is not a criminal act, therefore not illegal. It's illegal to enter without a valid visa.
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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 36512 Gender:	Re: They stopped the boats??? Reply #100 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:34am Baronvonrort wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:33am: mothra wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:23am: Entering this country without a visa is not a criminal act, therefore not illegal. It's illegal to enter without a valid visa. No it's not. It's unlawful.
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Baronvonrort Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20755 Gender:	Re: They stopped the boats??? Reply #101 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:35am mothra wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:34am: Baronvonrort wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:33am: mothra wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:23am: Entering this country without a visa is not a criminal act, therefore not illegal. It's illegal to enter without a valid visa. No it's not. It's unlawful. unlawful = illegal
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mothra

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #102 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:37am

Baronvonrort wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:35am:

mothra wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:34am:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:33am:

mothra wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:23am:

Entering this country without a visa is not a criminal act, therefore not illegal.

It's illegal to enter without a valid visa.

No it's not. It's unlawful.

unlawful = illegal

No it doesn't. 2 seperate words with 2 seperate meanings.

I've already explained that.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 36512 Gender:	Re: They stopped the boats??? Reply #103 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:39am It is not a criminal act to enter this ciuntry without a visa. Therefore it is not illegal. Why is this so hard to understand? I could easily explain this to my children.
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glezer55

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #104 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:40am

Has Tony Abbott stopped the boats? As far as we know boats have not reached Australia. Whether they are still leaving Indonesia is hidden behind a wall of secrecy labelled “operational matters”. Abbott tells us that the secrecy is important so that people smugglers are not given information about Australian patrols. I suspect the people smugglers don’t care, as long as they get their money and the people leave it is no longer their problem. It is not like the asylum seekers can go to consumer affairs if they don’t reach Australia.
As for the Rohingya Muslims fleeing Myanmar who are fleeing persecution, been forced to live in camps, discrimination so severe that it leads to deaths and a pervasive hatred by the Buddhist populace. They also have no citizenship so cannot get passports or visas. Leaving by land is also not an option as the borders have been blocked. Abbott’s idea is that these people who are fleeing this deplorable situation should be returned back to it.
Now Abbott is saying we will not accept any of the Rohingya refugees. What a hypocrite. When it came to asylum seekers already in Australia, Abbott was looking for a regional solution. When it comes to the region asking for help, Abbott’s solution is to throw a few million dollars at the problem and refuses to do anything else.

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Poll
Question: was Aussie PWNED in this thread
* This poll has now closed *
yes 9 (45.0%) no 11 (55.0%) Total votes: 20 « Created by: rhino on: May 21^st, 2015 at 7:29pm »