Australian Politics Forum - They stopped the boats???

Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #120 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 12:39pm

mothra wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:39am:

It is not a criminal act to enter this ciuntry without a visa.

Therefore it is not illegal.

Why is this so hard to understand? I could easily explain this to my children.

If Tony understood this, he'd have to call them unlawfuls.....it just doesn't have the same impact as illegals. You are right of course Mothra, not sure if the righties are dumb or just playing dumb.

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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Ex Dame Pansi Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 24168	Re: They stopped the boats??? Reply #121 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 12:43pm Lisa Jones wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 12:33pm: I'm off to grab a Panadol. Again? you're addicted to that stuff Lisa, it'll rot your kidneys and liver.
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mothra

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #122 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 12:44pm

Lisa Jones wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 12:33pm:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ma1958118/

Here's the link for the Cth Migration Act (1958).

You will note that this Act alone provides sufficient evidence for the swift execution of all lawyers on the basis that they are totally inept whilst being most competent in creating utter chaos for everyone around them.

Happy reading!

I'm off to grab a Panadol.

The Migration Act was ammended in 1994 to replace the term "illegal entrants" with "unlawful non-citizen".

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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mothra

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #123 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 12:46pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 12:39pm:

mothra wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:39am:

It is not a criminal act to enter this ciuntry without a visa.

Therefore it is not illegal.

Why is this so hard to understand? I could easily explain this to my children.

If Tony understood this, he'd have to call them unlawfuls.....it just doesn't have the same impact as illegals. You are right of course Mothra, not sure if the righties are dumb or just playing dumb.

They're even starting polls to congratulate themselves now.

It's a concern.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #124 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 12:57pm

mothra wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 12:44pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 12:33pm:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ma1958118/

Here's the link for the Cth Migration Act (1958).

You will note that this Act alone provides sufficient evidence for the swift execution of all lawyers on the basis that they are totally inept whilst being most competent in creating utter chaos for everyone around them.

Happy reading!

I'm off to grab a Panadol.

The Migration Act was ammended in 1994 to replace the term "illegal entrants" with "unlawful non-citizen".

Ahhh good point!

Under Paul Keating!

Yes. I recall that now.

Important info for all debaters in this topic.

Thanks for that

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Lisa Jones

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #125 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 1:00pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 12:43pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 12:33pm:

I'm off to grab a Panadol.

Again? you're addicted to that stuff Lisa, it'll rot your kidneys and liver.

I average 2 Panadols per day.

If that's an addiction....well I'd love to see your take on my daily tea/coffee intake.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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mothra

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #126 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 1:00pm

Tones and friends think it's ok to refer to what we refer to in our legislation as "unlawful non-citizens" as "illegal" because the UN Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees itself uses the term "illegal entry". Interestingly, the same charter declares each country sovereign over their borders so technically, we should defer to Australian terminology which is, once more, " unlawful non-citizens.

This makes them (and maybe the more smug righties) think it's ok to use to use the term "illegal" because as you say Pansi, it just has a certain ring to it.

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« Last Edit: May 22^nd, 2015 at 1:06pm by mothra »

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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John Smith

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #127 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 1:06pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 10:58am:

John Smith wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 10:05am:

rhino wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 8:30pm:

John Smith wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 8:04pm:

rhino wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 7:19pm:

Heres what ABC fact check states

Quote:

Scott Morrison correct on 'illegal entry' of people without a visa

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-06/morrison-correct-illegal-entry-people/4935372

you missed this bit on that link

Experts contacted by ABC Fact Check say it is not appropriate to use "illegal" when specifically describing asylum seekers or refugees.

Professor Jane McAdam, director of the International Refugee and Migration Law Project at the University of New South Wales, says that "asylum seekers are not illegal under international law".

"By ratifying the Refugee Convention, governments agree precisely not to treat asylum seekers as illegal," Professor McAdam said.

Professor Andreas Schloenhardt, from the University of Queensland law school took a similar view, saying "the terms 'asylum seeker' and 'illegal' should not be used together or in the same sentence".

a refugee advocate saying it is " not appropriate" doesnt negate the facts John. Good try though. Better than Ozzys . At least you had something. And you arent even a lawyer. How about that.

so I'm going to take your word for it over TWO professors of law? not in this lifetime I'm not Cheesy

there were some mighty fine legal distinctions made in those comments. the second one simply said 'should not' ie an opinion, not law. the first said asylum SEEKING was not illegal and no one said it was. He carefully avoided the fact that entering australia outside of a designated arrival zone and without a visa is illegal.

they clearly hoped readers would be as stupid as most clearly are rather than people with the ability to think and see legal wording trying to make you think the opposite of the truth.

so after all hallaballoo that you agree they are doing nothing illegal if they come here without a visa to seek Asylum Cheesy

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #128 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 1:08pm

rhino wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 11:47am:

Its certainly bringing out the idiots, including an alleged lawyer who apparently doesnt know a visa is required to enter the country.

EXCEPT UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES .... IE: when seeking asylum, provided they head directly to a point of authority from which they can do so

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Soren

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #129 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 2:18pm

Aussie wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 9:29pm:

Quote:

But illegal entrants is still correct.

It all boils down to grammatical semantics and each side will choose the phrase which suits their agenda.

These people are not illegal or illegals. Their entry in some context may be described as illegal.

The bigots choose to blur the distinction.

They are foreigners entering Australia illegally.

No blurring.

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|dev|null

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #130 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 2:39pm

Soren wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 2:18pm:

Aussie wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 9:29pm:

Quote:

But illegal entrants is still correct.

It all boils down to grammatical semantics and each side will choose the phrase which suits their agenda.

These people are not illegal or illegals. Their entry in some context may be described as illegal.

The bigots choose to blur the distinction.

They are foreigners entering Australia illegally.

No blurring.

They are foreigners entering Australia legally to claim Asylum Soren. No lies, please! Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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HooYAY its FriYAY Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 980 Gender:	Re: They stopped the boats??? Reply #131 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 3:07pm As long as they aren't getting in who cares what you call them.
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double plus good

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #132 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 3:20pm

|dev|null wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 2:39pm:

Soren wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 2:18pm:

Aussie wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 9:29pm:

Quote:

But illegal entrants is still correct.

It all boils down to grammatical semantics and each side will choose the phrase which suits their agenda.

These people are not illegal or illegals. Their entry in some context may be described as illegal.

The bigots choose to blur the distinction.

They are foreigners entering Australia illegally.

No blurring.

They are foreigners entering Australia legally to claim Asylum Soren. No lies, please! Grin

Until the government finds out that the only thing they are seeking is a luxurious life.

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Grendel

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #133 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 3:46pm

|dev|null wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 2:39pm:

Soren wrote on May 22^nd, 2015 at 2:18pm:

Aussie wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 9:29pm:

Quote:

But illegal entrants is still correct.

It all boils down to grammatical semantics and each side will choose the phrase which suits their agenda.

These people are not illegal or illegals. Their entry in some context may be described as illegal.

The bigots choose to blur the distinction.

They are foreigners entering Australia illegally.

No blurring.

They are foreigners entering Australia legally to claim Asylum Soren. No lies, please! Grin

liar liar pants on fire...
they are illegal entries and the UN says as much.
How many times must I post quotes and explain it to you people. Cheesy

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Grendel

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Re: They stopped the boats???
Reply #134 - May 22^nd, 2015 at 3:50pm

One more time for the UBER DUMMIES...

Grendel wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 9:05pm:

rhino wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 8:33pm:

John Smith wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 8:08pm:

Grendel wrote on May 21^st, 2015 at 7:31pm:

Good grief.... no visa you are illegal... that is clear and certain.

the only thing certain is your level of stupidity ... an asylum seeker entering Australia without a visa is UNLAWFUL, not illegal

.

Fair enough. whats the difference John? I mean the entire legal fraternity in Australia says they are illegal, what do you know that they dont?

Actually one shouldn't listen to Johnboy you'll get led astray.

The Convention says Johnboy...

"The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their

illegal entry

or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence. (Article 31, (1))

Gee look at that... ILLEGAL ENTRY... sorry Johnboy I keep trying to educate you but you never listen and never learn. BTW we went over this very same thing ages ago... YOU NEVER LEARN!!! Roll Eyes

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Poll
Question: was Aussie PWNED in this thread
* This poll has now closed *
yes 9 (45.0%) no 11 (55.0%) Total votes: 20 « Created by: rhino on: May 21^st, 2015 at 7:29pm »