Australian Politics Forum - Abbott and Liberal Party were correct. AGW BS

BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Abbott and Liberal Party were correct. AGW BS
Reply #105 - May 4^th, 2015 at 6:31pm

lee wrote on May 4^th, 2015 at 4:14pm:

rabbitoh08 wrote on May 4^th, 2015 at 1:23pm:

Passive microwave satellite data reveal that, since 1979, winter Arctic ice extent has decreased about 3 to 4 percent per decade (Meier et al. 2006). Antarctic ice extent is increasing (Cavalieri et al. 2003), but the trend is small.

And Arctic ice is a fraction of Antarctic Ice. Your point being?

It's indicators of a complex system! Heat content of the system is what's important: temperature is just an indicator of that heat content! The beginning of the science was working out that heat content was transported via the thermo-haline process making the northern hemisphere warmer than the southern.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21376 Gender:	Re: Abbott and Liberal Party were correct. AGW BS Reply #106 - May 4^th, 2015 at 6:33pm Then why all the talk of Arctic Ice? That is selective is it not?
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21376 Gender:	Re: Abbott and Liberal Party were correct. AGW BS Reply #107 - May 4^th, 2015 at 6:35pm JT your faith in GRACE is noted.
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John_Taverner Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2217 Gender:	Re: Abbott and Liberal Party were correct. AGW BS Reply #108 - May 4^th, 2015 at 6:42pm Ok Lee, what's your problem with GRACE? - not giving the answer you like?
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John_Taverner

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Re: Abbott and Liberal Party were correct. AGW BS
Reply #109 - May 4^th, 2015 at 6:47pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on May 4^th, 2015 at 6:31pm:

It's indicators of a complex system! Heat content of the system is what's important: temperature is just an indicator of that heat content! The beginning of the science was working out that heat content was transported via the thermo-haline process making the northern hemisphere warmer than the southern.

It is a complex system. Higher global tempertures contribute to higher atmospheric moisture content, which leads to higher precipitation (including snow on the Antarctic plateau). Then there is the question of changing airflows over the Antarctic shelf. Never the less, the mass of ice is decreasing both in the Arctic and Antarctic.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Abbott and Liberal Party were correct. AGW BS
Reply #110 - May 4^th, 2015 at 6:50pm

lee wrote on May 4^th, 2015 at 6:33pm:

Then why all the talk of Arctic Ice? That is selective is it not?

Certainly it is selective ,yes: it's only an indicator of change like any other indicator of change- that's the problem with complex systems... which indicator is more important than any other or are they all completely a waste of time?

What is life?

Roll Eyes

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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innocentbystander. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4723 Gender:	Re: Abbott and Liberal Party were correct. AGW BS Reply #111 - May 5^th, 2015 at 8:20am Even no global warming is not enough to convince them that there is no global warming
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John_Taverner

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Re: Abbott and Liberal Party were correct. AGW BS
Reply #112 - May 5^th, 2015 at 9:43am

Have a wild cherry picking brandy cocktail:

Find some data that matches what you want to say irrespective of the source.

Now here is the real non manipulated graph from the horses mouth:

You will notice that the source provided in your post is a text file. The graph has been doctored, presumably by Mr Watts.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Anthony_Watts_blog.htm

For those who are really concerned about accuracy, this is what RSS says on its website:

Quote:

TLT (Temperature Lower Troposphere)

TLT is constructed by calculating a weighted difference between MSU2 (or AMSU5) measurements from near limb views and measurements from the same channels taken closer to nadir, as can be seen in Figure 2 for the case of MSU. This has the effect of extrapolating the MSU2 (or AMSU5) measurements lower in the troposphere, and removing most of the stratospheric influence. Because of the difference involves measurements made at different locations, and because of the large absolute values of the weights used, additional noise is added by this process, increasing the uncertainty in the final results. For more details see Mears et al., 2009b.

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« Last Edit: May 5^th, 2015 at 10:00am by John_Taverner »

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John_Taverner Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2217 Gender:	Re: Abbott and Liberal Party were correct. AGW BS Reply #113 - May 5^th, 2015 at 9:57am lee wrote on May 4^th, 2015 at 6:35pm: JT your faith in GRACE is noted. Still waiting. Are you a gravity denialist too?
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Chimp_Logic Gold Member Offline πολιτικός Posts: 4826 Mawson Base Gender:	Re: Abbott and Liberal Party were correct. AGW BS Reply #114 - May 5^th, 2015 at 11:32am innocentbystander. wrote on May 5^th, 2015 at 8:20am: Even no global warming is not enough to convince them that there is no global warming http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/clip_image002_thumb.png EXPOSED
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rabbitoh08

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Re: Abbott and Liberal Party were correct. AGW BS
Reply #115 - May 5^th, 2015 at 1:17pm

lee wrote on May 4^th, 2015 at 6:33pm:

Then why all the talk of Arctic Ice? That is selective is it not?

All the "talk about Arctic ice" is because the rapid decline of the arctic icecap is one piece of evidence that shows us that the planet is warming.

Just like "all the talk" about global glacial mass balance is because the rapid decline of global glacial mass balance is another piece of evidence that shows us that the planet is warming.

And just like "all the talk" about Antarctic ice sheet volume is because the decline of Antarctic ice sheet volume is another piece of evidence that shows us that the planet is warming.

Why do you like to selectively ignore "all this talk" - and try to only concentrate on one specific observation (i.e.. the expansion of sea ice AREA around Antarctica) - which you then deliberately misinterpret?

Do you genuinely not understand that one of the obvious results of the warming of very cold continental land mass covered in in vast amounts of frozen fresh water, is that there will be an increase in the extent (by AREA) of floating ice around the continent, as the ice sheet collapses and adds vast amounts of frozen fresh water to the surrounding ocean?

Let me try to help you out a bit. Do you know the freezing point of fresh water? It is 0 degrees C. And seawater?:

The freezing point of seawater decreases as salt concentration increases. At typical salinity, it freezes at about −2 °C
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawater

Making any sense to you yet?

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rabbitoh08

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Re: Abbott and Liberal Party were correct. AGW BS
Reply #116 - May 5^th, 2015 at 1:20pm

innocentbystander. wrote on May 5^th, 2015 at 8:20am:

Even no global warming is not enough to convince them that there is no global warming

It would be.

But global warming is clear and unambiguous.

It is the reason the arctic is melting
It is the reason global glacial mass balance is decreasing.
It is the reason sea levels are rising
It is the reason Antarctic ice max is decreasing
It is the reason the Greenland ice sheet is decreasing.
And it is the reason that 2014 was likely the warmest year ever recorded - and it wasn't even an El Nino year.

All of the doctored graphs in the world do not change these facts.

Carry on denying.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Abbott and Liberal Party were correct. AGW BS
Reply #117 - May 5^th, 2015 at 1:34pm

rabbitoh08 wrote on May 5^th, 2015 at 1:17pm:

lee wrote on May 4^th, 2015 at 6:33pm:

Then why all the talk of Arctic Ice? That is selective is it not?

All the "talk about Arctic ice" is because the rapid decline of the arctic icecap is one piece of evidence that shows us that the planet is warming.

Just like "all the talk" about global glacial mass balance is because the rapid decline of global glacial mass balance is another piece of evidence that shows us that the planet is warming.

And just like "all the talk" about Antarctic ice sheet volume is because the decline of Antarctic ice sheet volume is another piece of evidence that shows us that the planet is warming.

Why do you like to selectively ignore "all this talk" - and try to only concentrate on one specific observation (i.e.. the expansion of sea ice AREA around Antarctica) - which you then deliberately misinterpret?

Do you genuinely not understand that one of the obvious results of the warming of very cold continental land mass covered in in vast amounts of frozen fresh water, is that there will be an increase in the extent (by AREA) of floating ice around the continent, as the ice sheet collapses and adds vast amounts of frozen fresh water to the surrounding ocean?

Let me try to help you out a bit. Do you know the freezing point of fresh water? It is 0 degrees C. And seawater?:

The freezing point of seawater decreases as salt concentration increases. At typical salinity, it freezes at about −2 °C
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawater

Making any sense to you yet?

Why does lee select the unborn to pick on Cheesy

(Cos daddy will only give him the spare rental to smoke his crack in if he does Roll Eyes

)

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21376 Gender:	Re: Abbott and Liberal Party were correct. AGW BS Reply #118 - May 5^th, 2015 at 2:35pm http://images.remss.com/data/msu/graphics/TLT/plots/RSS_TS_channel_TLT_Global_Land_And_Sea_v03_3.png Nice graph. Now notice the difference in time lines 1. 1997 to present; and 2. 1980 to presumably present. Can you see the correlation between 1997 to present on the 1980 to present?
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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: Abbott and Liberal Party were correct. AGW BS Reply #119 - May 5^th, 2015 at 2:43pm innocentbystander. wrote on May 5^th, 2015 at 8:20am: Even no global warming is not enough to convince them that there is no global warming http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/clip_image002_thumb.png Can we stop using this graph when you guys can't even interpret it properly.
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