Australian Politics Forum - Muslim Leaders in Australia, Banning Terrorism Wil

Soren

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Re: Muslim Leaders in Australia, Banning Terrorism Wil
Reply #15 - May 4^th, 2015 at 12:18pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 3^rd, 2015 at 7:34pm:

Soren wrote on May 3^rd, 2015 at 6:42pm:

Who is going to revise the Koran, Gandy, and Moihammed's role in Islam? How will the do it.

What will happen to sharia and jihad?

Be reinterpretated, Soren?

You know, like Christianity has been reinterpreted since the death of Jesus Christ... Roll Eyes

Well, Christianity allows re-interpretation because it is not stupid enough to regard the Bible as the unalterable and eternal word of Allah.

A huge difference between Christianity and Islam but it will forever elude you.

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Karnal

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Re: Muslim Leaders in Australia, Banning Terrorism Wil
Reply #16 - May 4^th, 2015 at 1:17pm

Soren wrote on May 4^th, 2015 at 12:18pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 3^rd, 2015 at 7:34pm:

Soren wrote on May 3^rd, 2015 at 6:42pm:

Who is going to revise the Koran, Gandy, and Moihammed's role in Islam? How will the do it.

What will happen to sharia and jihad?

Be reinterpretated, Soren?

You know, like Christianity has been reinterpreted since the death of Jesus Christ... Roll Eyes

Well, Christianity allows re-interpretation because it is not stupid enough to regard the Bible as the unalterable and eternal word of Allah.

A huge difference between Christianity and Islam but it will forever elude you.

Oh, old boy, you’ve obviously never heard of the Second Council of Nicea. The Bible most certainly [i]is[/] the unalterable and eternal word of Allah/Jehova/Gud.

The Koran is a completely different book. It is not an account, as such, of the life of Muhammed. It’s an amalgam of histories and ideas.

The Koran is used in a completely different way to the Christian Bible. Muslims learn it in Arabic. They quote passages as prayers. Like Hebrew and Sanskrit, Arabic is believed to be a "pure" language. To many, the words of the Koran are believed to have a mystical/magical quality, like mantras - like the words of the Torah, which are sung.

The "alerable" or "reformable" aspect of the Koran is in its interpretation. There are as many different readings of the Koran as there are readers. There is an interpretive aspect to Islam because the Koran is such a baffling book, but also because for most Muslims, Arabic is not their first language. This is also why there are so many ahadith - to attempt to explain the Koran.

The Koran might be unalterable, like every other ancient spiritual text, but it’s interpretation is not. Many Muslims accept this - in contrast to the knucklehead fundamentalists who have risen in recent times.

And yes, these Muslims are dangerous, blind and unthinking - like funfamentalists everywhere.

You should understand this, old chap. After all, you’re one yourself.

How does it feel to be a bearded numptie?

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Soren

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Re: Muslim Leaders in Australia, Banning Terrorism Wil
Reply #17 - May 4^th, 2015 at 4:52pm

Karnal wrote on May 4^th, 2015 at 1:17pm:

Soren wrote on May 4^th, 2015 at 12:18pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 3^rd, 2015 at 7:34pm:

Soren wrote on May 3^rd, 2015 at 6:42pm:

Who is going to revise the Koran, Gandy, and Moihammed's role in Islam? How will the do it.

What will happen to sharia and jihad?

Be reinterpretated, Soren?

You know, like Christianity has been reinterpreted since the death of Jesus Christ... Roll Eyes

Well, Christianity allows re-interpretation because it is not stupid enough to regard the Bible as the unalterable and eternal word of Allah.

A huge difference between Christianity and Islam but it will forever elude you.

Oh, old boy, you’ve obviously never heard of the Second Council of Nicea. The Bible most certainly [i]is[/] the unalterable and eternal word of Allah/Jehova/Gud.

The Koran is a completely different book. It is not an account, as such, of the life of Muhammed. It’s an amalgam of histories and ideas.

The Koran is used in a completely different way to the Christian Bible. Muslims learn it in Arabic. They quote passages as prayers. Like Hebrew and Sanskrit, Arabic is believed to be a "pure" language. To many, the words of the Koran are believed to have a mystical/magical quality, like mantras - like the words of the Torah, which are sung.

The "alerable" or "reformable" aspect of the Koran is in its interpretation. There are as many different readings of the Koran as there are readers. There is an interpretive aspect to Islam because the Koran is such a baffling book, but also because for most Muslims, Arabic is not their first language. This is also why there are so many ahadith - to attempt to explain the Koran.

The Koran might be unalterable, like every other ancient spiritual text, but it’s interpretation is not. Many Muslims accept this - in contrast to the knucklehead fundamentalists who have risen in recent times.

And yes, these Muslims are dangerous, blind and unthinking - like funfamentalists everywhere.

You should understand this, old chap. After all, you’re one yourself.

How does it feel to be a bearded numptie?

When they get fundamentalist about 'kill them wherever you find', there is a problem. When Christians get fundamental about 'love one another', not so much.

Islam and Christianity have a radically different teaching about how to relate to self and others. Talking in broad brush strokes, the former demands subjugation, the latter self-sacrifice. The former rewards jihadi warriors in the name of Allah, the latter promises the earth to the meek. The former privileges men and Muslims (and through the language of the Koran, Arabs), the latter calls you out from your nations and makes no distinction between individuals in the eyes of god.

It's nutty to be literalist in religion, law, anything. But I'd rather have literalist love and forgiveness mongers than literalist jihad-mongers.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Muslim Leaders in Australia, Banning Terrorism Wil Reply #18 - May 4^th, 2015 at 7:02pm So Soren, when Charlemagne committed genocide against the Saxons in specific reference to carrying out God's work, what was it - an exercise of 'self sacrifice' or fulfilling the promise of giving the earth to the meek?
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Soren

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Re: Muslim Leaders in Australia, Banning Terrorism Wil
Reply #19 - May 4^th, 2015 at 8:54pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 4^th, 2015 at 7:02pm:

So Soren, when Charlemagne committed genocide against the Saxons in specific reference to carrying out God's work, what was it - an exercise of 'self sacrifice' or fulfilling the promise of giving the earth to the meek?

Remind me - which one of Jesus's teachings was Charlemagne following?

You are very, very good at avoiding pertinent points by bring up examples that are completely beside the point.

Charlemagne is no prophet of anything, BTW.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Muslim Leaders in Australia, Banning Terrorism Wil
Reply #20 - May 4^th, 2015 at 9:00pm

Soren wrote on May 4^th, 2015 at 12:18pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 3^rd, 2015 at 7:34pm:

Soren wrote on May 3^rd, 2015 at 6:42pm:

Who is going to revise the Koran, Gandy, and Moihammed's role in Islam? How will the do it.

What will happen to sharia and jihad?

Be reinterpretated, Soren?

You know, like Christianity has been reinterpreted since the death of Jesus Christ... Roll Eyes

Well, Christianity allows re-interpretation because it is not stupid enough to regard the Bible as the unalterable and eternal word of Allah.

A huge difference between Christianity and Islam but it will forever elude you.

Many Christians believe exactly that about The Bible, Soren. Not all Muslims believe that about the Q'ran. Indeed, I'd hazard a guess that most Muslims can't even read the Q'ran properly, as it's written in archiac Arabic and lacks many of the accents of modern Arabic... Roll Eyes

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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: Muslim Leaders in Australia, Banning Terrorism Wil
Reply #21 - May 4^th, 2015 at 9:10pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 4^th, 2015 at 9:00pm:

Soren wrote on May 4^th, 2015 at 12:18pm:

Brian Ross wrote on May 3^rd, 2015 at 7:34pm:

Soren wrote on May 3^rd, 2015 at 6:42pm:

Who is going to revise the Koran, Gandy, and Moihammed's role in Islam? How will the do it.

What will happen to sharia and jihad?

Be reinterpretated, Soren?

You know, like Christianity has been reinterpreted since the death of Jesus Christ... Roll Eyes

Well, Christianity allows re-interpretation because it is not stupid enough to regard the Bible as the unalterable and eternal word of Allah.

A huge difference between Christianity and Islam but it will forever elude you.

Many Christians believe exactly that about The Bible, Soren.

And many don't. Which ones are more important?

So please, please FOrf, Brain. We are not conflating ideologies/religions with what this or that percentage believes.

I am talking about the ideas, not your stupid 'not every XYZ' believes this or that.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Muslim Leaders in Australia, Banning Terrorism Wil
Reply #22 - May 4^th, 2015 at 9:24pm

Soren wrote on May 4^th, 2015 at 9:10pm:

And many don't. Which ones are more important?

Using your logic, Soren, it would have to be the tiny minority whom do... Roll Eyes

Quote:

So please, please FOrf, Brain. We are not conflating ideologies/religions with what this or that percentage believes.

I am talking about the ideas, not your stupid 'not every XYZ' believes this or that.

*SIGH*, I wonder how you managed to become a trick-cylist, Soren. I really do. Your psychoanalyst must have had a field day with your mind's workings! Grin

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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Yadda

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Re: Muslim Leaders in Australia, Banning Terrorism Wil
Reply #23 - May 4^th, 2015 at 9:51pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 4^th, 2015 at 7:02pm:

So Soren, when Charlemagne committed genocide against the Saxons in specific reference to carrying out God's work, what was it - an exercise of 'self sacrifice' or fulfilling the promise of giving the earth to the meek?

gandalf,

Throughout human history, and certainly in the last 2,000 years, many, many men have done many wicked things, in the name of their religion, while in fact, history records that those men were in fact merely chasing their own base, secular, political ambitions.
...as men are want to do!

Many 'religious' moslems, particularly, have been guilty of committing wanton criminality, in pursuit of their political ambitions.

The name Mohammed Morsi, comes readily to mind, from recent history.

There are many more, many of them moslems.

Yadda wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 1:10am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 24^th, 2012 at 11:33pm:

Also - many of them - like Longweekend are Inquisition deniers.

The Inquisition went on for 600 years & at it's height they burnt
400 witches in one hour in the town of Toulouse in France.
All these atrocities are documented by the Catholic Church themselves.

Is religion ever used [by men, with political motives] as a reason, or as an excuse, to do wicked things ?

Clearly, yes.

.

Quote:

Where Islam prospers it eventually leads to a totalitarian society.
Christianity leads to free political systems.
Secularists miss this reality to their peril.

Posted by: James Martel at July 8, 2008 1:47 PM
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/021670.php#c556385

An old quote, that came up, from my own archive.
Use Google to find it online.

here it is.....
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/07/iranian-parliament-approves-death-penalty-for-...

.

Mild mannered - Mohammed Morsi -
Ex-President of Egypt

"The Koran is our constitution"
"The Prophet Muhammad is our leader"
"Jihad is our path"
"AND DEATH FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH IS OUR MOST LOFTY ASPIRATION!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8NtiUMOFFg

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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