Australian Politics Forum - The myth of Coalition economic management

Dsmithy70 Gold Member Offline ire futuis vobismetipsis Posts: 13147 Newy Gender:	Re: The myth of Coalition economic management Reply #30 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 1:59pm Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 12:05pm: This is why you'd be a miserable failure as a business owner A successful business uses debt to increase income & therefore profitability. If you have to ask how best stick to C&P'ing the Daily Telegraph Teaspoon.
Back to top	REBELLION is not what most people think it is. REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself. Gavin Nascimento IP Logged

Kat

Gold Member

Offline

Socialism IS the answer.

Posts: 17709
Everywhere and no-where
Gender: female

Re: The myth of Coalition economic management
Reply #31 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 2:41pm

Bam wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 12:39pm:

Kat wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 11:55am:

Bam wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 8:46am:

Quote:

there have been only seven occasions where the tax to GDP ratio has been in excess of 23.5 per cent of GDP and all seven were under the Howard government.

The answer is obvious ... If you want a budget surplus, do what Howard do and RAISE TAXES.

Sick of this bullsh1t about surpluses.

I did say "If you want a budget surplus". I'm not asserting that it's desirable. My point is that surpluses aren't free but come at a price. Your point is similar. Howard's government only got surpluses because they were the highest-taxing government we've had in the past 30 years.

My view is the budget should be balanced. No massive surplus, no massive deficit.

Not you, Bam, but the general cacophony coming from the conservatives and the media.

Sorry.

Back to top

IP Logged

St George of the Garden

Gold Member

Offline

http://tinyurl.com/n
3o8m2x

Posts: 9809
Gender: male

Re: The myth of Coalition economic management
Reply #32 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 2:50pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 12:01pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 9:56am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 6:55am:

But what did Labor do about this?

Labor had other problems to deal with first. As always, it's easier to stuff something up then it is to fix it. Every attempt by labor to cut spending was blocked by the libs.

Yes, pay off Keatings' $96bn debt and leave office with a string of budget surpluses plus more than $20bn in the bank. Shame Howard, shame! I'd call you an idiot, but you're too stupid to even understand what that means.

Howard & Costello did not leave with a surplus but with a structural Budget deficit. And a highly indebted household sector.

The “Keating” debt of $70Bn was about 40% Treasurer Howard debt.

The coalition being the better economic manager is a myth.

Back to top

I want Muso as GMod. Bring back Muso!

Friends of the National Broadband Network

IP Logged

Vuk11

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1797
QLD
Gender: male

Re: The myth of Coalition economic management
Reply #33 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 4:09pm

Bam wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 12:53pm:

Vuk11 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 12:25pm:

A surplus is a good catalyst/indicator for reducing taxes or at least admit that it's safe to do so. (Although many taxes can be reduced even when in debt - ie as the laffer curve can indicate)

An obsession with "tax cuts" is a blinkered view that is often driven by personal greed. A surplus is also an indicator that it is safe for the government to spend more money.

I love it, to want to keep the fruits of your labour is greed, yet it is not greed to want to take the money of others? What a backward world we live in..... Undecided

It's easy to act generous and virtuous when you are spending the money of others.

Back to top

IP Logged

St George of the Garden

Gold Member

Offline

http://tinyurl.com/n
3o8m2x

Posts: 9809
Gender: male

Re: The myth of Coalition economic management
Reply #34 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 4:23pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 6:55am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 6:32am:

Care to rebut any of the points, Armpit?

The Kook and Dunlop are kind in not pointing out the huge structural Budget deficit Howard & Costello created nor the boom they fed that saw the household sector indebted to the eyeballs!

The myth of Coalition superior economic management still lives, propped up by an economically illiterate Canberra Press Gallery and the Murdoch press, yet it is taking a battering. A recession which is on the cards and the consequent Budget deficit blow out should see the myth die once and for all.

But what did Labor do about this? Remember - they had six years to fix this supposed disaster of zero debt and budget surpluses from the Howard/Costello years!!! Cheesy

Labor cut out the Baby Bonus and means tested the private healthcare rebate and started taxing those retired on huge incomes from super. The Libs reversed that last measure. What else they could do from minority govt against an Opposition just wanting to block I don’t know. They did impose a stream of efficiency dividends on the PS as well.

Back to top

I want Muso as GMod. Bring back Muso!

IP Logged

Big Donger Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 102796	Re: The myth of Coalition economic management Reply #35 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 4:38pm That was a rhetorical question, St George. It’s Armchair’s default response to any government criticism.
Back to top	IP Logged

Bam

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male

Re: The myth of Coalition economic management
Reply #36 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 5:59pm

Vuk11 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 4:09pm:

Bam wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 12:53pm:

Vuk11 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 12:25pm:

A surplus is a good catalyst/indicator for reducing taxes or at least admit that it's safe to do so. (Although many taxes can be reduced even when in debt - ie as the laffer curve can indicate)

An obsession with "tax cuts" is a blinkered view that is often driven by personal greed. A surplus is also an indicator that it is safe for the government to spend more money.

I love it, to want to keep the fruits of your labour is greed, yet it is not greed to want to take the money of others? What a backward world we live in..... Undecided

It's easy to act generous and virtuous when you are spending the money of others.

A poor response. By the same argument, anyone who gets money from someone else is spending other people's money.

Once the government has raised funds, the money belongs to the government to do with as it sees fit.

Back to top

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

IP Logged

St George of the Garden

Gold Member

Offline

http://tinyurl.com/n
3o8m2x

Posts: 9809
Gender: male

Re: The myth of Coalition economic management
Reply #37 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 6:13pm

Big Donger wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 4:38pm:

That was a rhetorical question, St George. It’s Armchair’s default response to any government criticism.

I am not letting any Lib supporter get away with lies and bulldust!

Howard and Costello fed a red hot credit–fuelled real estate boom and p!ssed up against the wall the $350Bn of boom time revenues. The tax cuts and wealthfare the two idiots built into the Budget make achieving a surplus impossible until they are removed. Gillard/Swan did what they could from minority govt, the shambles is flailing around cluelessly and in doing so destroyed the NBN and the renewable energy sector that offered a way forward to a non–mining dominated economy.

Back to top

I want Muso as GMod. Bring back Muso!

IP Logged

Vuk11

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1797
QLD
Gender: male

Re: The myth of Coalition economic management
Reply #38 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 7:09pm

Bam wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 5:59pm:

Vuk11 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 4:09pm:

Bam wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 12:53pm:

Vuk11 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 12:25pm:

A surplus is a good catalyst/indicator for reducing taxes or at least admit that it's safe to do so. (Although many taxes can be reduced even when in debt - ie as the laffer curve can indicate)

An obsession with "tax cuts" is a blinkered view that is often driven by personal greed. A surplus is also an indicator that it is safe for the government to spend more money.

I love it, to want to keep the fruits of your labour is greed, yet it is not greed to want to take the money of others? What a backward world we live in..... Undecided

It's easy to act generous and virtuous when you are spending the money of others.

A poor response. By the same argument, anyone who gets money from someone else is spending other people's money.

Once the government has raised funds, the money belongs to the government to do with as it sees fit.

The difference is one is voluntary interaction and free trade/exchange the other is taking from people without permission. My point still stands, you fools say that wanting to keep the money you earn is greed but not wanting to take the money other people earn.

Yes the government can do as it sees fit that doesn't make it right, efficient, necessary or desirable.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bam

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male

Re: The myth of Coalition economic management
Reply #39 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 7:46pm

Vuk11 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 7:09pm:

Bam wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 5:59pm:

Vuk11 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 4:09pm:

Bam wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 12:53pm:

Vuk11 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 12:25pm:

A surplus is a good catalyst/indicator for reducing taxes or at least admit that it's safe to do so. (Although many taxes can be reduced even when in debt - ie as the laffer curve can indicate)

An obsession with "tax cuts" is a blinkered view that is often driven by personal greed. A surplus is also an indicator that it is safe for the government to spend more money.

I love it, to want to keep the fruits of your labour is greed, yet it is not greed to want to take the money of others? What a backward world we live in..... Undecided

It's easy to act generous and virtuous when you are spending the money of others.

A poor response. By the same argument, anyone who gets money from someone else is spending other people's money.

Once the government has raised funds, the money belongs to the government to do with as it sees fit.

The difference is one is voluntary interaction and free trade/exchange the other is taking from people without permission. My point still stands, you fools say that wanting to keep the money you earn is greed but not wanting to take the money other people earn.

Yes the government can do as it sees fit that doesn't make it right, efficient, necessary or desirable.

Rubbish. You grant implicit permission for being taxed by living here. If you want to revoke your permission and want to live in a country where a government doesn't raise enough taxes for the people's needs, emigrate to Somalia.

Back to top

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

IP Logged

Vuk11

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1797
QLD
Gender: male

Re: The myth of Coalition economic management
Reply #40 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 7:55pm

Bam wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 7:46pm:

Rubbish. You grant implicit permission for being taxed by living here. If you want to revoke your permission and want to live in a country where a government doesn't raise enough taxes for the people's needs, emigrate to Somalia.

Woooow move to Somalia and the social contract myth in one post! Hang on let me just get my statist bingo card out. Wink

You know there's no logic to what you just said right? We on the internet call that trolling.
I kindly ask you as the advocate of coercion, force and violence to prove this implicit social contract.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Mar 13^th, 2015 at 8:00pm by Vuk11 »

Bam_Bingo.jpg (128 KB | 79 )

IP Logged

philperth2010

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21097
Perth
Gender: male

Re: The myth of Coalition economic management
Reply #41 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 8:03pm

Spending during the GFC was focused on one off stimulus unlike the tax cuts and concessions introduced by the Howard Government (mostly to high income earners) that caused a structural deficit in the budget....The Abbott Government removed revenue streams such as the carbon and mining taxes yet kept most of the associated compensation....The big ticket items such as GONSKI and the NDIS were supported by the Coalition on a unity ticket and have not been introduced yet....The Coalitions answer to the GFC was more tax cuts not stimulus which would have reduced revenue even further....Claiming the Coalition are better economic managers does not pass scrutiny when their only solution is tax cuts for the rich!!!

Huh

Quote:

Opposition leader Malcolm Turnbull also argues that the stimulus is a "sugar hit" for the economy, one that may prove effective in the short-term, but ineffectual over the long term.

Mr Turnbull says the better alternative to hand-outs would have been tax cuts, spreading the benefits over a longer period of time and over a broader cross-section of the economy.

Yet most economists have pointed out that there is negligible difference between the alternative proposals and that tax cuts are most likely to benefit the wealthy who would be more likely to save than spend them.

What Mr Turnbull is failing to say is that the situation is so bad that, without an economic stimulus, Australia will suffer an immediate shock to the system which will worsen the situation.

http://newsweekly.com.au/article.php?id=3807

Back to top

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)

IP Logged

Big Donger

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 102796

Re: The myth of Coalition economic management
Reply #42 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 8:59pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 6:13pm:

Big Donger wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 4:38pm:

That was a rhetorical question, St George. It’s Armchair’s default response to any government criticism.

I am not letting any Lib supporter get away with lies and bulldust!

Howard and Costello fed a red hot credit–fuelled real estate boom and p!ssed up against the wall the $350Bn of boom time revenues. The tax cuts and wealthfare the two idiots built into the Budget make achieving a surplus impossible until they are removed. Gillard/Swan did what they could from minority govt, the shambles is flailing around cluelessly and in doing so destroyed the NBN and the renewable energy sector that offered a way forward to a non–mining dominated economy.

Yes, but Labor were in power for 6 years, so that trumps everything you just said.

Back to top

IP Logged

Big Donger

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 102796

Re: The myth of Coalition economic management
Reply #43 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 9:02pm

Vuk11 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 7:55pm:

Bam wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 7:46pm:

Rubbish. You grant implicit permission for being taxed by living here. If you want to revoke your permission and want to live in a country where a government doesn't raise enough taxes for the people's needs, emigrate to Somalia.

Woooow move to Somalia and the social contract myth in one post! Hang on let me just get my statist bingo card out. Wink

You know there's no logic to what you just said right? We on the internet call that trolling.
I kindly ask you as the advocate of coercion, force and violence to prove this implicit social contract.

Why doesn’t your bingo card have move to Amerika on it, Vuk?

Back to top

IP Logged

Bam

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 21905
Gender: male

Re: The myth of Coalition economic management
Reply #44 - Mar 13^th, 2015 at 10:45pm

Vuk11 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 7:55pm:

Bam wrote on Mar 13^th, 2015 at 7:46pm:

Rubbish. You grant implicit permission for being taxed by living here. If you want to revoke your permission and want to live in a country where a government doesn't raise enough taxes for the people's needs, emigrate to Somalia.

Woooow move to Somalia and the social contract myth in one post! Hang on let me just get my statist bingo card out. Wink

You know there's no logic to what you just said right? We on the internet call that trolling.
I kindly ask you as the advocate of coercion, force and violence to prove this implicit social contract.

A typical idiotic response from you. Starting with the ridiculous proposal that tax is "taking from people without permission" ... and all downhill from there.

Back to top

You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

IP Logged