Australian Politics Forum - 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer'

BatteriesNotIncluded

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'use our atmosphere as an open sewer'
Jan 24^th, 2015 at 6:46pm

http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/jan/21/al-gore-lord-stern-o...

Al Gore: oil companies 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer'
We must leave fossil fuels unburned, Gore says, adding the transition to clean energy will be ‘unstoppable’

It’s not possible to listen to petroleum industry executives defending their reckless extraction of oil without feeling that we are living in an age of madness.

In a recent private conversation under the Chatham House rule, one of the world’s most senior industry leaders, who is considered to be at the more moderate end of the spectrum, insisted that we are going to burn all the world’s hydrocarbons despite the consequences.

His reasoning is that a growing population in the developing world needs energy to raise living standards, that renewables will not become a dominant energy source till the end of the century and that politicians don’t have the courage or power to limit production.

He acknowledged that the burning of all reserves would almost certainly lead to temperature rises of up to 4C, but argued the best way forward is to focus on limiting the damage through such technologies as carbon capture and storage....

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 156060 Gender:	Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer' Reply #1 - Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:26pm Turn up the air con. Simple.
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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer' Reply #2 - Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:29pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:26pm: Turn up the air con. Simple. Think about someone other than yourself : simple
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 156060 Gender:	Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer' Reply #3 - Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:30pm BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:29pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:26pm: Turn up the air con. Simple. Think about someone other than yourself : simple Others can come in and share the AC.
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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer'
Reply #4 - Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:47pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:30pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:29pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:26pm:

Turn up the air con.

Simple.

Think about someone other than yourself : simple Wink

Others can come in and share the AC.

You mean like subsistence farmers Shocked

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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greggerypeccary

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Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer'
Reply #5 - Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:47pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:47pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:30pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:29pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:26pm:

Turn up the air con.

Simple.

Think about someone other than yourself : simple Wink

Others can come in and share the AC.

You mean like subsistence farmers Shocked

As long as they wipe their feet.

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GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer'
Reply #6 - Jan 24^th, 2015 at 8:04pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:47pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:47pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:30pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:29pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 24^th, 2015 at 7:26pm:

Turn up the air con.

Simple.

Think about someone other than yourself : simple Wink

Others can come in and share the AC.

You mean like subsistence farmers Shocked

As long as they wipe their feet.

greg is dismissing the reality of food Roll Eyes

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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lee

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Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer'
Reply #7 - Jan 25^th, 2015 at 11:36am

' We must leave fossil fuels unburned, Gore says, adding the transition to clean energy will be ‘unstoppable’ '

Says Gore flying from place to place. When he gets to clean energy for his many trips, multiple mansions etc, and is living the parable, instead of the lie; wake me up.

Did you see where the Swiss, for the first time in history, had to open the military airbase, to accommodate all the planes that flew into Davos for the junket?

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer'
Reply #8 - Jan 25^th, 2015 at 11:39am

lee wrote on Jan 25^th, 2015 at 11:36am:

' We must leave fossil fuels unburned, Gore says, adding the transition to clean energy will be ‘unstoppable’ '

Says Gore flying from place to place. When he gets to clean energy for his many trips, multiple mansions etc, and is living the parable, instead of the lie; wake me up.

It's a regulated markets problem: what he does means nada!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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lee Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 21593 Gender:	Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer' Reply #9 - Jan 25^th, 2015 at 11:40am Sorry, read my edit And it is called hypocrisy
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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer' Reply #10 - Jan 25^th, 2015 at 11:45am lee wrote on Jan 25^th, 2015 at 11:40am: Sorry, read my edit And it is called hypocrisy You can't accept that it is a systemic problem! Shooting the messenger isn't business acumen no matter what your lib voting daddy loving friends say!
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lee Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 21593 Gender:	Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer' Reply #11 - Jan 25^th, 2015 at 11:51am You can't accept that a 30% increase in CO2 since 1998, based on the year 1700 level, does not have temperatures increasing the heating trend above 1970-1998 slope. But CO2 is supposed to be THE MAIN DRIVER.
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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer' Reply #12 - Jan 25^th, 2015 at 12:16pm lee wrote on Jan 25^th, 2015 at 11:51am: You can't accept that a 30% increase in CO2 since 1998, based on the year 1700 level, does not have temperatures increasing the heating trend above 1970-1998 slope. But CO2 is supposed to be THE MAIN DRIVER. sources, thanx
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lee

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Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer'
Reply #13 - Jan 25^th, 2015 at 4:04pm

1700 - ~278ppm 'carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere were at about 280ppm*.

http://oncirculation.com/the-basics/climate-change/how-much-carbon-dioxide-have-...

1998 - 367.08

2014 - 398.78

http://www.carbonify.com/carbon-dioxide-levels.htm

So 398.78-278= 120.78 total change
398.78-367.08= 31.7 change since 1998

31.7/120.78= 26%. Sorry, it has only been an increase of 30% since 1996.

Global Temp graph from NOAA, set to Annual, shows the trend breaking in 1998 or if you want to exclude 1998 as an outlier, breaking in 2000.

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/global

But even a 26% change since 1998 should have temperatures rocketing along if CO2 is the Main Driver, not limping along.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer'
Reply #14 - Jan 25^th, 2015 at 4:17pm

lee wrote on Jan 25^th, 2015 at 4:04pm:

https://scripps.ucsd.edu/programs/keelingcurve/wp-content/plugins/sio-bluemoon/g...

1700 - ~278ppm 'carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere were at about 280ppm*.

http://oncirculation.com/the-basics/climate-change/how-much-carbon-dioxide-have-...

1998 - 367.08

2014 - 398.78

http://www.carbonify.com/carbon-dioxide-levels.htm

So 398.78-278= 120.78 total change
398.78-367.08= 31.7 change since 1998

31.7/120.78= 26%. Sorry, it has only been an increase of 30% since 1996.

Global Temp graph from NOAA, set to Annual, shows the trend breaking in 1998 or if you want to exclude 1998 as an outlier, breaking in 2000.

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/global

But even a 26% change since 1998 should have temperatures rocketing along if CO2 is the Main Driver, not limping along.

Why do you expect linearity in a complex system Huh

You're an embarrasment to the internet buddy, like seriously fella get off the crack: it is the worlds most boring drug Roll Eyes

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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lee Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 21593 Gender:	Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer' Reply #15 - Jan 25^th, 2015 at 5:44pm You asked for the links. I gave them. I am so glad that you see nothing wrong with those figures. Enjoy. So since 2000, 14 years of 30 for NOAA/WMO climate change, there is no prospect I am right? Damn.
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Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer'
Reply #16 - Jan 25^th, 2015 at 6:00pm

lee wrote on Jan 25^th, 2015 at 5:44pm:

You asked for the links. I gave them. I am so glad that you see nothing wrong with those figures. Enjoy. Wink

So since 2000, 14 years of 30 for NOAA/WMO climate change, there is no prospect I am right? Damn.

I'm not talking about the figures: I'm talking about the concept of you expecting linearity in a complex system!

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lee

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Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer'
Reply #17 - Jan 25^th, 2015 at 6:21pm

No, I am not expecting linearity. But the cAGW meme is that CO2 is the driver. I have pointed out that CO2 has increased by over a quarter in 16 years, and hasn't had the effect postulated. The temperature is virtually flatlining with that increase. And over half a climate period gone.

The El Nino that wasn't, is what was supposed to put the hiatus to bed. However Mother Nature shortchanged the alarmists.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer'
Reply #18 - Jan 25^th, 2015 at 9:39pm

lee wrote on Jan 25^th, 2015 at 6:21pm:

No, I am not expecting linearity. But the cAGW meme is that CO2 is the driver. I have pointed out that CO2 has increased by over a quarter in 16 years, and hasn't had the effect postulated. The temperature is virtually flatlining with that increase. And over half a climate period gone.

The El Nino that wasn't, is what was supposed to put the hiatus to bed. However Mother Nature shortchanged the alarmists.

You're a joke! A complete joke!!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer'
Reply #19 - Jan 25^th, 2015 at 9:43pm

lee wrote on Jan 25^th, 2015 at 6:21pm:

No, I am not expecting linearity. But the cAGW meme is that CO2 is the driver. I have pointed out that CO2 has increased by over a quarter in 16 years, and hasn't had the effect postulated. The temperature is virtually flatlining with that increase. And over half a climate period gone.

The El Nino that wasn't, is what was supposed to put the hiatus to bed. However Mother Nature shortchanged the alarmists.

The forum is starting to realise lee doesn't understand what a complex system is...

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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lee

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Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer'
Reply #20 - Jan 26^th, 2015 at 12:59pm

James Hansen to US Congress 1988 - natural variation cannot explain the warming.

'It is nearly cancelled by the pre-pause warming event (1992‐1998, return period 30‐40 years); the pause is no more than natural variability.'

http://www.physics.mcgill.ca/~gang/eprints/eprintLovejoy/neweprint/Anthropause.G...

So while CO2 levels since 1988 have increased by 40%, natural variability can overcome not just global warming, but global warming with an inbuilt 40% increase in CO2 since 1988.

Now that's complex.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer'
Reply #21 - Jan 27^th, 2015 at 1:42pm

lee wrote on Jan 26^th, 2015 at 12:59pm:

James Hansen to US Congress 1988 - natural variation cannot explain the warming.

'It is nearly cancelled by the pre-pause warming event (1992‐1998, return period 30‐40 years); the pause is no more than natural variability.'

http://www.physics.mcgill.ca/~gang/eprints/eprintLovejoy/neweprint/Anthropause.G...

So while CO2 levels since 1988 have increased by 40%, natural variability can overcome not just global warming, but global warming with an inbuilt 40% increase in CO2 since 1988.

Now that's complex.

wow, lee is really whipping everyones brain into cream Roll Eyes

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lee Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 21593 Gender:	Re: 'use our atmosphere as an open sewer' Reply #22 - Jan 27^th, 2015 at 5:43pm If the brains are already mush; flagellation will not change the result.
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