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South Australia: massive oil reserves discovered (Read 36091 times)
crocodile
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Re: South Australia: massive oil reserves discovered
Reply #195 - Jan 22nd, 2015 at 9:44am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 9:14am:
crocodile wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 8:48am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 8:40am:
crocodile wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 8:28am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 7:39am:
It is your interpretation of this that sucks.  Just like you were blaming Norways personal debt on the Sovereign wealth fund and forgetting that it all came from overseas.  The same way you think deficits are a great way of reducing personal debt while forgetting imports/exports.


My interpretation is well in line with any published dissertation on macroeconomics. The fact that the Norwegian SWF is created from international funds is of no consequence as none of it finds it way into either the public or private sector balance sheets. The Norwegian budget surpluses are therefore funded entirely by the private sector.

Quote:
The same way you think deficits are a great way of reducing personal debt while forgetting imports/exports


You've misinterpreted things a bit Longy. Nobody forgot about the external trade balance. In the Norwegian case, the trade balance is largely off the table as it is entirely seconded by the wealth fund as far as oil revenues go. In the local case it doesn't matter as we almost always run a negative current account. I'll look when I get a bit of spare time but I suspect that the Norwegian trade balance would be negative as well with oil removed from the figures.

If the private sector has to fund both a trade deficit and a budget surplus then logically, private savings must decrease.

Local GDP expands by about 5% pa in nominal terms. Naturally, so too does the base money supply. As pointed out before, as long as the budget deficit is smaller than the money supply growth it is not going to add to net public debt in any way. The deficit is always funded by bond issues that are taken up by the private sector. The RBA simply repurchases them when they expand the money supply. Any difference between the base money supply growth and the public deficit can be used to manage the government debt position.

If you really are interested in how the RBA manages the money supply I suggest you google "open market operations" for a description.


The point is that you were directly 'blaming' the wealth fund as having come from private citizens when it clearly did not.


Not directly but indirectly. If the revenues of the SWF were disbursed to the citizenry or even used to fund the public budget there would be less need to cover the shortfall in savings.



hmm...  so tell me what you think a Sovereign Wealth Fund is supposed to be???  I can certainly see you studied economics.  The mere concept of 'saving' seems to elude you.


Saving for whom ? The private sector have no access to it. The public sector don't use the dividends. It's been accumulating since 1990. Both sectors have been denied working capital for 25 years just in case a rainy day comes along some time. Savings my arse.
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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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longweekend58
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Re: South Australia: massive oil reserves discovered
Reply #196 - Jan 22nd, 2015 at 10:18am
 
crocodile wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 9:44am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 9:14am:
crocodile wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 8:48am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 8:40am:
crocodile wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 8:28am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 7:39am:
It is your interpretation of this that sucks.  Just like you were blaming Norways personal debt on the Sovereign wealth fund and forgetting that it all came from overseas.  The same way you think deficits are a great way of reducing personal debt while forgetting imports/exports.


My interpretation is well in line with any published dissertation on macroeconomics. The fact that the Norwegian SWF is created from international funds is of no consequence as none of it finds it way into either the public or private sector balance sheets. The Norwegian budget surpluses are therefore funded entirely by the private sector.

Quote:
The same way you think deficits are a great way of reducing personal debt while forgetting imports/exports


You've misinterpreted things a bit Longy. Nobody forgot about the external trade balance. In the Norwegian case, the trade balance is largely off the table as it is entirely seconded by the wealth fund as far as oil revenues go. In the local case it doesn't matter as we almost always run a negative current account. I'll look when I get a bit of spare time but I suspect that the Norwegian trade balance would be negative as well with oil removed from the figures.

If the private sector has to fund both a trade deficit and a budget surplus then logically, private savings must decrease.

Local GDP expands by about 5% pa in nominal terms. Naturally, so too does the base money supply. As pointed out before, as long as the budget deficit is smaller than the money supply growth it is not going to add to net public debt in any way. The deficit is always funded by bond issues that are taken up by the private sector. The RBA simply repurchases them when they expand the money supply. Any difference between the base money supply growth and the public deficit can be used to manage the government debt position.

If you really are interested in how the RBA manages the money supply I suggest you google "open market operations" for a description.


The point is that you were directly 'blaming' the wealth fund as having come from private citizens when it clearly did not.


Not directly but indirectly. If the revenues of the SWF were disbursed to the citizenry or even used to fund the public budget there would be less need to cover the shortfall in savings.



hmm...  so tell me what you think a Sovereign Wealth Fund is supposed to be???  I can certainly see you studied economics.  The mere concept of 'saving' seems to elude you.


Saving for whom ? The private sector have no access to it. The public sector don't use the dividends. It's been accumulating since 1990. Both sectors have been denied working capital for 25 years just in case a rainy day comes along some time. Savings my arse.



so I was right.  you don't really believe in putting money away for a future that is unsure?  You don't believe in savings of any kind?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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crocodile
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Re: South Australia: massive oil reserves discovered
Reply #197 - Jan 22nd, 2015 at 11:30am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 10:18am:
crocodile wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 9:44am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 9:14am:
crocodile wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 8:48am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 8:40am:
crocodile wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 8:28am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jan 22nd, 2015 at 7:39am:
It is your interpretation of this that sucks.  Just like you were blaming Norways personal debt on the Sovereign wealth fund and forgetting that it all came from overseas.  The same way you think deficits are a great way of reducing personal debt while forgetting imports/exports.


My interpretation is well in line with any published dissertation on macroeconomics. The fact that the Norwegian SWF is created from international funds is of no consequence as none of it finds it way into either the public or private sector balance sheets. The Norwegian budget surpluses are therefore funded entirely by the private sector.

Quote:
The same way you think deficits are a great way of reducing personal debt while forgetting imports/exports


You've misinterpreted things a bit Longy. Nobody forgot about the external trade balance. In the Norwegian case, the trade balance is largely off the table as it is entirely seconded by the wealth fund as far as oil revenues go. In the local case it doesn't matter as we almost always run a negative current account. I'll look when I get a bit of spare time but I suspect that the Norwegian trade balance would be negative as well with oil removed from the figures.

If the private sector has to fund both a trade deficit and a budget surplus then logically, private savings must decrease.

Local GDP expands by about 5% pa in nominal terms. Naturally, so too does the base money supply. As pointed out before, as long as the budget deficit is smaller than the money supply growth it is not going to add to net public debt in any way. The deficit is always funded by bond issues that are taken up by the private sector. The RBA simply repurchases them when they expand the money supply. Any difference between the base money supply growth and the public deficit can be used to manage the government debt position.

If you really are interested in how the RBA manages the money supply I suggest you google "open market operations" for a description.


The point is that you were directly 'blaming' the wealth fund as having come from private citizens when it clearly did not.


Not directly but indirectly. If the revenues of the SWF were disbursed to the citizenry or even used to fund the public budget there would be less need to cover the shortfall in savings.



hmm...  so tell me what you think a Sovereign Wealth Fund is supposed to be???  I can certainly see you studied economics.  The mere concept of 'saving' seems to elude you.


Saving for whom ? The private sector have no access to it. The public sector don't use the dividends. It's been accumulating since 1990. Both sectors have been denied working capital for 25 years just in case a rainy day comes along some time. Savings my arse.



so I was right.  you don't really believe in putting money away for a future that is unsure?  You don't believe in savings of any kind?



You can say that if you want. In the context of the Norwegians if you think tying up usable capital for quarter of a century to give everyone an ice cream later on is a good idea you're welcome to it. In the meantime that private debt just keeps on climbing.
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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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longweekend58
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Re: South Australia: massive oil reserves discovered
Reply #198 - Jan 22nd, 2015 at 11:38am
 
And I think you are demonstrating to us exactly why economists are the last people that should be consulted about the economy.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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macman
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Re: South Australia: massive oil reserves discovered
Reply #199 - Jan 25th, 2015 at 5:48am
 
Longy, have they found that oil yet? Grin Grin Grin Grin
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