Australian Politics Forum - It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...

Dsmithy70

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #45 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:13am

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:59am:

INcrease govt terms to 6 years, reform the senate so it is a house of review and not a house of petty political revenge and then you might see govtsd of both persuasions able to govern and take the hard decisions that need to be taken.

An island of agreement in a torrid sea of debate

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Kat

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #46 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:18am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:13am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:59am:

INcrease govt terms to 6 years, reform the senate so it is a house of review and not a house of petty political revenge and then you might see govtsd of both persuasions able to govern and take the hard decisions that need to be taken.

An island of agreement in a torrid sea of debate

No, the Senate is fine just as it is, and is only doing what it was designed to
do - put the brakes on bad policy, and rein-in poor governments.

As for 6 year terms - NO WAY.

You only have to look at the damage these bastards have done in little over
a year to see that a government such as this can and will destroy a country
in far less than 6 years.

And with a traitor like Cosgrove as G-G, there's NO way of getting rid of them.

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« Last Edit: Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:26am by Kat »

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longweekend58

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #47 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:20am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:13am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:59am:

INcrease govt terms to 6 years, reform the senate so it is a house of review and not a house of petty political revenge and then you might see govtsd of both persuasions able to govern and take the hard decisions that need to be taken.

An island of agreement in a torrid sea of debate

interesting thought isn't it. If we had say 5 years terms and a reform of the senate that would preclude unrepresentative swill from destroying genuine policy then things would be very different. The risk of course is 5 years of someone like Rudd who even the true believers rank as a dud. But he was dumped internally anyhow so perhaps that is not so bad. Gillard was a country mile better than Rudd. Perhaps in a better parliamentary circumstance she might have been a decent PM.

But whats the chance of this reform??? ZERO.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #48 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:21am

Kat wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:18am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:13am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:59am:

INcrease govt terms to 6 years, reform the senate so it is a house of review and not a house of petty political revenge and then you might see govtsd of both persuasions able to govern and take the hard decisions that need to be taken.

An island of agreement in a torrid sea of debate

No, the Senate is fine just as it is, and is only doing what it was designed to
do - put the brakes on bad policy, and rein-in poor governments.

As for 6 year terms - NO WAY.

You only have to look at the damage these bastards have done in little over
a year to see that 6 years of a government such as this can and will destroy
a country in far less than 6 years.

And with a traitor like Cosgrove as G-G, there's NO way of getting rid of them.

The senate was DESIGNED to protect state-based interests and not party-based ones. if you are going to complain at least get your facts right.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dsmithy70

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #49 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:41am

Kat wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:18am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:13am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:59am:

INcrease govt terms to 6 years, reform the senate so it is a house of review and not a house of petty political revenge and then you might see govtsd of both persuasions able to govern and take the hard decisions that need to be taken.

An island of agreement in a torrid sea of debate

No, the Senate is fine just as it is, and is only doing what it was designed to
do - put the brakes on bad policy, and rein-in poor governments.

As for 6 year terms - NO WAY.

You only have to look at the damage these bastards have done in little over
a year to see that a government such as this can and will destroy a country
in far less than 6 years.

And with a traitor like Cosgrove as G-G, there's NO way of getting rid of them.

Kat, we are in a constant electioneering cycle.
3 years is a joke, no party can reasonably do anything.
Had we had 6 year terms Keating would have reaped the benefits of HIS reforms instead of Howard.

Whilst some periods might be torrid through ideology, there would more chance of those light pole lynchings you like to call for bringing on an early poll & decent governments would not be afraid of giving medicine we don't like but need to improve our lot over the long term.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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longweekend58

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #50 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:47am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:41am:

Kat wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:18am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:13am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:59am:

INcrease govt terms to 6 years, reform the senate so it is a house of review and not a house of petty political revenge and then you might see govtsd of both persuasions able to govern and take the hard decisions that need to be taken.

An island of agreement in a torrid sea of debate

No, the Senate is fine just as it is, and is only doing what it was designed to
do - put the brakes on bad policy, and rein-in poor governments.

As for 6 year terms - NO WAY.

You only have to look at the damage these bastards have done in little over
a year to see that a government such as this can and will destroy a country
in far less than 6 years.

And with a traitor like Cosgrove as G-G, there's NO way of getting rid of them.

Kat, we are in a constant electioneering cycle.
3 years is a joke, no party can reasonably do anything.
Had we had 6 year terms Keating would have reaped the benefits of HIS reforms instead of Howard.

Whilst some periods might be torrid through ideology, there would more chance of those light pole lynchings you like to call for bringing on an early poll & decent governments would not be afraid of giving medicine we don't like but need to improve our lot over the long term.

I would support 6 years terms as long as there was a recall facility with a very high trigger point eg 10% of the voters. But we need to get the senate into line and change the voting system so that boofheads like Muir don't get elected on 1500 votes and a SA candidate with 50,000 does not.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dsmithy70

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #51 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:51am

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:47am:

I would support 6 years terms as long as there was a recall facility with a very high trigger point eg 10% of the voters. But we need to get the senate into line and change the voting system so that boofheads like Muir don't get elected on 1500 votes and a SA candidate with 50,000 does not.

Im happy with those suggestions.

Now how do we make it happen Grin

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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longweekend58

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #52 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 12:08pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:51am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:47am:

I would support 6 years terms as long as there was a recall facility with a very high trigger point eg 10% of the voters. But we need to get the senate into line and change the voting system so that boofheads like Muir don't get elected on 1500 votes and a SA candidate with 50,000 does not.

Im happy with those suggestions.

Now how do we make it happen Grin

now you have to ask the hard questions!!!

Unfortunately there is probably no way at all. a four year term is POSSIBLE although unlikely. Senate reform is needed but who has to pass these reforms? the senate! And while labor under any other leader than Shorten might work out that it is to their benefit as much as Abbotts to reform the senate, they will oppose it because... well that's all they do at the moment.

IN a way, we need a Howard type character to sell it. Even to his opponents, Howard was considered safe and not likely to abuse the process. Not that I am saying Shorten or Abbott would either but in politics, PERCEPTION is the reality.

Obviously, bipartisan support is essential and for some years now, bipartisan support on anything other than pay rises has been non-existent.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt... Reply #53 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 12:13pm I see four year terms as possible (with senate either 4 or 8 years). five years as highly unlikely and 6 years as impossible. pity. Politics aside, such a system would attract and elevate the best of our PMs and Ministers.
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Dsmithy70

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #54 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 12:32pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 12:08pm:

a four year term is POSSIBLE although unlikely

No lets stick with 6, another year & we'll only get maybe 6 months of governing instead of electioneering

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 12:08pm:

Senate reform is needed but who has to pass these reforms? the senate! And while labor under any other leader than Shorten might work out that it is to their benefit as much as Abbotts to reform the senate, they will oppose it because... well that's all they do at the moment.

You cant help but throw politics in there can you?
I could say the same for Tones when Gillard was in government.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 12:13pm:

(with senate either 4 or 8 years).

No lets keep it simple, 6 year terms for both upper & lower houses, polling at same time.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 12:08pm:

Howard was considered safe and not likely to abuse the process.

My turn for politics
"Workchoices"

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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John Smith

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #55 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 12:56pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:20am:

The risk of course is 5 years of someone like Rudd who even the true believers rank as a dud

and you think Abbotts any better? Cheesy

if you are going to critise the system at least keep your party politics out of it. Especially when you have probably the only person at the moment capable of out duding Rudd

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Dnarever

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #56 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 1:45pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:52am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:47am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:26am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:17am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 9:52pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 7:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 7:52pm:

one swallow does not a summer make

you've got one lib that gave us a surplus, and they had to sell the farm to do it. ... whoopdedooo ... they would never have gotten that surplus if it wasn't for Keatings forsight.

Hows W.A. going? The largest mining state in the middle of a mining boom and still posting deficits Grin

he saved $230B. that's an enormous amount of money. By contrast, Labor spent that and more in just 6 years

230B? really ... where did it all go?

More to the point is the question of how did they hide it all from the budget process and leave no record of it happening.

hmm... so I guess this is where you go to the dark side and say it didn't happen, right? Labor in fact reduced spending, borrowed nothing and had surplus budgets?

LOOK AT THE TREASURY DOCUMENTS. they spent well in excess of income every single year. there is the 'record' you insist doesn't exist.

You really should get that selective comprehension thing looked at.

oh really??? you are the one now suggesting that that near $300B of over-budget expenditure was hidden and has no record. Would you care to clarify what you meant or are you going to deny that it even happened?

That is the point about comprehension - that is nothing like what I asked.

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longweekend58

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #57 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 3:51pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 12:32pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 12:08pm:

a four year term is POSSIBLE although unlikely

No lets stick with 6, another year & we'll only get maybe 6 months of governing instead of electioneering

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 12:08pm:

Senate reform is needed but who has to pass these reforms? the senate! And while labor under any other leader than Shorten might work out that it is to their benefit as much as Abbotts to reform the senate, they will oppose it because... well that's all they do at the moment.

You cant help but throw politics in there can you?
I could say the same for Tones when Gillard was in government.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 12:13pm:

(with senate either 4 or 8 years).

No lets keep it simple, 6 year terms for both upper & lower houses, polling at same time.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 12:08pm:

Howard was considered safe and not likely to abuse the process.

My turn for politics
"Workchoices"

a singular example is not evidence of a trend. I would grant most people the ability to make a mistake or two without calling them 'bad' or 'evil'

I agree with 6 years but in practical terms that has ZERO chance of succeeding. 4 years is the only possibility with 5 a very distant half-chance.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #58 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 3:52pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 1:45pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:52am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:47am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:26am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:17am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 9:52pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 7:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 7:52pm:

one swallow does not a summer make

you've got one lib that gave us a surplus, and they had to sell the farm to do it. ... whoopdedooo ... they would never have gotten that surplus if it wasn't for Keatings forsight.

Hows W.A. going? The largest mining state in the middle of a mining boom and still posting deficits Grin

he saved $230B. that's an enormous amount of money. By contrast, Labor spent that and more in just 6 years

230B? really ... where did it all go?

More to the point is the question of how did they hide it all from the budget process and leave no record of it happening.

hmm... so I guess this is where you go to the dark side and say it didn't happen, right? Labor in fact reduced spending, borrowed nothing and had surplus budgets?

LOOK AT THE TREASURY DOCUMENTS. they spent well in excess of income every single year. there is the 'record' you insist doesn't exist.

You really should get that selective comprehension thing looked at.

oh really??? you are the one now suggesting that that near $300B of over-budget expenditure was hidden and has no record. Would you care to clarify what you meant or are you going to deny that it even happened?

That is the point about comprehension - that is nothing like what I asked.

then what precisely is THIS supposed to mean??? Quote:

More to the point is the question of how did they hide it all from the budget process and leave no record of it happening.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #59 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 4:11pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 12:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 11:20am:

The risk of course is 5 years of someone like Rudd who even the true believers rank as a dud

and you think Abbotts any better? Cheesy

if you are going to critise the system at least keep your party politics out of it. Especially when you have probably the only person at the moment capable of out duding Rudd

I was referring to how even Labor people regard Rudd as a poor PM. His colleagues have very low regard for him.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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