Australian Politics Forum - It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...

Dnarever

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #30 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:17am

John Smith wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 9:52pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 7:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 7:52pm:

one swallow does not a summer make

you've got one lib that gave us a surplus, and they had to sell the farm to do it. ... whoopdedooo ... they would never have gotten that surplus if it wasn't for Keatings forsight.

Hows W.A. going? The largest mining state in the middle of a mining boom and still posting deficits Grin

he saved $230B. that's an enormous amount of money. By contrast, Labor spent that and more in just 6 years

230B? really ... where did it all go?

More to the point is the question of how did they hide it all from the budget process and leave no record of it happening.

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longweekend58

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #31 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:23am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:29am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:08am:

Plenty of money for dud planes though chosen and supported by both parties well before Abbott came along.

So Abbott cant change government spending decisions? Obviously you've not been keeping up with the senate this last 6 months. But the planes are a separate issue. You can think we don't need them but virtually everybody else disagrees.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:08am:

Plenty of money to monitor the media that was labors doing or did you forget, plus they wanted to censor the media.

But Abbott told us the coalition would not do the same as Labor

and they aren't censoring the media, remember? nor are they proposing to censor the internet as labor did.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:08am:

How much for this increasemypolls jaunt to Iraq hmmm How often did Rudd and Gillard do this?

Fair point, I believe all pollies unless actually serving should be banned from warzone photo ops & the nauseating sight of fake grief at soldiers funerals.

you can believe all you want but the vast majority would believe they should be present. as for 'photo ops' that is your impression but given the very few photos of any kidn that have surfaced it was clearly as badly planned 'photo op'. Perhaps the reasons were in fact, legitimate?

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:08am:

Which party increased govt spending on hospitals by NOT ONE DOLLAR while they managed to spend almost $300B on... who knows?

So Tony cant? Spend it from where? REmember we have a massive deficit budget and a massive debt? we didn't have that 6 years ago. The money simply isn't there, like it or not.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:08am:

if you want to lay blame, start by laying blame where it is due. State govts run hospitals and are dreadful at it.

For those that missed it

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 7:56am:

Most people seem unaware that on January 19, the Medicare rebate for a GP consultation lasting 6-10 minutes will fall from $37.05 to $16.95, and then down to $11.95 from July 1.

We aren't talking about hospitals (as your well aware but nice try) we are talking about DEFUNDING MEDICARE
by stealth. Your choice of words is surprisingly wrong. no one is 'de-finding' medicare by REDUDING a medicare payment. And in any case, Medicare has never been funded anyhow. It comes out of general revenue and the medicare levy provides less than 20% of its operating costs.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #32 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:26am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:17am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 9:52pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 7:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 7:52pm:

one swallow does not a summer make

you've got one lib that gave us a surplus, and they had to sell the farm to do it. ... whoopdedooo ... they would never have gotten that surplus if it wasn't for Keatings forsight.

Hows W.A. going? The largest mining state in the middle of a mining boom and still posting deficits Grin

he saved $230B. that's an enormous amount of money. By contrast, Labor spent that and more in just 6 years

230B? really ... where did it all go?

More to the point is the question of how did they hide it all from the budget process and leave no record of it happening.

hmm... so I guess this is where you go to the dark side and say it didn't happen, right? Labor in fact reduced spending, borrowed nothing and had surplus budgets?

LOOK AT THE TREASURY DOCUMENTS. they spent well in excess of income every single year. there is the 'record' you insist doesn't exist.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dsmithy70

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #33 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:38am

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:23am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:29am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:08am:

Plenty of money for dud planes though chosen and supported by both parties well before Abbott came along.

So Abbott cant change government spending decisions? Obviously you've not been keeping up with the senate this last 6 months. But the planes are a separate issue. You can think we don't need them but virtually everybody else disagrees.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:08am:

Plenty of money to monitor the media that was labors doing or did you forget, plus they wanted to censor the media.

But Abbott told us the coalition would not do the same as Labor

and they aren't censoring the media, remember? nor are they proposing to censor the internet as labor did.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:08am:

How much for this increasemypolls jaunt to Iraq hmmm How often did Rudd and Gillard do this?

Fair point, I believe all pollies unless actually serving should be banned from warzone photo ops & the nauseating sight of fake grief at soldiers funerals.

you can believe all you want but the vast majority would believe they should be present. as for 'photo ops' that is your impression but given the very few photos of any kidn that have surfaced it was clearly as badly planned 'photo op'. Perhaps the reasons were in fact, legitimate?

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:08am:

Which party increased govt spending on hospitals by NOT ONE DOLLAR while they managed to spend almost $300B on... who knows?

So Tony cant? Spend it from where? REmember we have a massive deficit budget and a massive debt? we didn't have that 6 years ago. The money simply isn't there, like it or not.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:08am:

if you want to lay blame, start by laying blame where it is due. State govts run hospitals and are dreadful at it.

For those that missed it

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 7:56am:

Most people seem unaware that on January 19, the Medicare rebate for a GP consultation lasting 6-10 minutes will fall from $37.05 to $16.95, and then down to $11.95 from July 1.

We aren't talking about hospitals (as your well aware but nice try) we are talking about DEFUNDING MEDICARE
by stealth. Your choice of words is surprisingly wrong. no one is 'de-finding' medicare by REDUDING a medicare payment. And in any case, Medicare has never been funded anyhow. It comes out of general revenue and the medicare levy provides less than 20% of its operating costs.

Whatev's

No matter what Tony chooses to spend or cut you will support even I suspect to your own & your children's detriment.

I don't know if that level of loyalty is to be applauded or pitied.

Huh

One might term it fanaticism.

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REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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Dnarever

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #34 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:47am

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:26am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:17am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 9:52pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 7:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 7:52pm:

one swallow does not a summer make

you've got one lib that gave us a surplus, and they had to sell the farm to do it. ... whoopdedooo ... they would never have gotten that surplus if it wasn't for Keatings forsight.

Hows W.A. going? The largest mining state in the middle of a mining boom and still posting deficits Grin

he saved $230B. that's an enormous amount of money. By contrast, Labor spent that and more in just 6 years

230B? really ... where did it all go?

More to the point is the question of how did they hide it all from the budget process and leave no record of it happening.

hmm... so I guess this is where you go to the dark side and say it didn't happen, right? Labor in fact reduced spending, borrowed nothing and had surplus budgets?

LOOK AT THE TREASURY DOCUMENTS. they spent well in excess of income every single year. there is the 'record' you insist doesn't exist.

You really should get that selective comprehension thing looked at.

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longweekend58

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #35 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:49am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:38am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:23am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:29am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:08am:

Plenty of money for dud planes though chosen and supported by both parties well before Abbott came along.

So Abbott cant change government spending decisions? Obviously you've not been keeping up with the senate this last 6 months. But the planes are a separate issue. You can think we don't need them but virtually everybody else disagrees.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:08am:

Plenty of money to monitor the media that was labors doing or did you forget, plus they wanted to censor the media.

But Abbott told us the coalition would not do the same as Labor

and they aren't censoring the media, remember? nor are they proposing to censor the internet as labor did.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:08am:

How much for this increasemypolls jaunt to Iraq hmmm How often did Rudd and Gillard do this?

Fair point, I believe all pollies unless actually serving should be banned from warzone photo ops & the nauseating sight of fake grief at soldiers funerals.

you can believe all you want but the vast majority would believe they should be present. as for 'photo ops' that is your impression but given the very few photos of any kidn that have surfaced it was clearly as badly planned 'photo op'. Perhaps the reasons were in fact, legitimate?

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:08am:

Which party increased govt spending on hospitals by NOT ONE DOLLAR while they managed to spend almost $300B on... who knows?

So Tony cant? Spend it from where? REmember we have a massive deficit budget and a massive debt? we didn't have that 6 years ago. The money simply isn't there, like it or not.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:08am:

if you want to lay blame, start by laying blame where it is due. State govts run hospitals and are dreadful at it.

For those that missed it

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 7:56am:

Most people seem unaware that on January 19, the Medicare rebate for a GP consultation lasting 6-10 minutes will fall from $37.05 to $16.95, and then down to $11.95 from July 1.

We aren't talking about hospitals (as your well aware but nice try) we are talking about DEFUNDING MEDICARE
by stealth. Your choice of words is surprisingly wrong. no one is 'de-finding' medicare by REDUDING a medicare payment. And in any case, Medicare has never been funded anyhow. It comes out of general revenue and the medicare levy provides less than 20% of its operating costs.

Whatev's

No matter what Tony chooses to spend or cut you will support even I suspect to your own & your children's detriment.

I don't know if that level of loyalty is to be applauded or pitied.

Huh

One might term it fanaticism.

or perhaps I am able to understand figures and realities a tad better than you. In my world of business where I am the owner and any losses are my personal responsibility, I understand very well that if it cant be afforded then it isn't done. I understand that reducing costs is my PRIMARY responsibility as chief financial officer. I can have wildly successful courses but if I lose money I am doomed to close. Abbott understands what few righties do and no lefties do - that spending cannot be below income for very long before serious consequences ensue.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #36 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:52am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:47am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:26am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:17am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 9:52pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 7:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 7:52pm:

one swallow does not a summer make

you've got one lib that gave us a surplus, and they had to sell the farm to do it. ... whoopdedooo ... they would never have gotten that surplus if it wasn't for Keatings forsight.

Hows W.A. going? The largest mining state in the middle of a mining boom and still posting deficits Grin

he saved $230B. that's an enormous amount of money. By contrast, Labor spent that and more in just 6 years

230B? really ... where did it all go?

More to the point is the question of how did they hide it all from the budget process and leave no record of it happening.

hmm... so I guess this is where you go to the dark side and say it didn't happen, right? Labor in fact reduced spending, borrowed nothing and had surplus budgets?

LOOK AT THE TREASURY DOCUMENTS. they spent well in excess of income every single year. there is the 'record' you insist doesn't exist.

You really should get that selective comprehension thing looked at.

oh really??? you are the one now suggesting that that near $300B of over-budget expenditure was hidden and has no record. Would you care to clarify what you meant or are you going to deny that it even happened?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dsmithy70

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #37 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:09am

Quote:

or perhaps I am able to understand figures and realities a tad better than you. In my world of business where I am the owner and any losses are my personal responsibility, I understand very well that if it cant be afforded then it isn't done. I understand that reducing costs is my PRIMARY responsibility as chief financial officer. I can have wildly successful courses but if I lose money I am doomed to close. Abbott understands what few righties do and no lefties do - that spending cannot be below income for very long before serious consequences ensue.

Yes Yes that tried old line of countries are businesses.

Not that its totally wrong, but if we really were a business as soon as someone becomes a liability through birth,illness,accident or age then they would be killed.

No one I know is advocating unfetted spending & debt, I am certainly not, but its the cuts & the areas that they effect that are the problem.

Had Joe said anyone earning over 200K on super investments must pay normal tax rates or something similar(not a pissy 18 month levy) and cut other corporate welfare, for example I think you'd find that other unpalatable measures would have been more widely accepted & they might have actually passed a budget.

But hey keep cheering champ

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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Swagman

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #38 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:15am

Kat wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:12am:

Swagman wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:58am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 9:52pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 7:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 7:52pm:

one swallow does not a summer make

you've got one lib that gave us a surplus, and they had to sell the farm to do it. ... whoopdedooo ... they would never have gotten that surplus if it wasn't for Keatings forsight.

Hows W.A. going? The largest mining state in the middle of a mining boom and still posting deficits Grin

he saved $230B. that's an enormous amount of money. By contrast, Labor spent that and more in just 6 years

230B? really ... where did it all go?

Batgatte, Julia's school monuments, vote bribes (AKA stimulus-> AKA future income tax increases) Grin

Still no effing clue, I see... Angry

Ohhh that's right.....there was NO batgatte, NO Julia's school monuments and NO vote bribes (AKA stimulus-> AKA future income tax increases) in Truebelieverland....? Roll Eyes

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longweekend58

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #39 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:28am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:09am:

Quote:

or perhaps I am able to understand figures and realities a tad better than you. In my world of business where I am the owner and any losses are my personal responsibility, I understand very well that if it cant be afforded then it isn't done. I understand that reducing costs is my PRIMARY responsibility as chief financial officer. I can have wildly successful courses but if I lose money I am doomed to close. Abbott understands what few righties do and no lefties do - that spending cannot be below income for very long before serious consequences ensue.

Yes Yes that tried old line of countries are businesses.

Not that its totally wrong, but if we really were a business as soon as someone becomes a liability through birth,illness,accident or age then they would be killed.

No one I know is advocating unfetted spending & debt, I am certainly not, but its the cuts & the areas that they effect that are the problem.

Had Joe said anyone earning over 200K on super investments must pay normal tax rates or something similar(not a pissy 18 month levy) and cut other corporate welfare, for example I think you'd find that other unpalatable measures would have been more widely accepted & they might have actually passed a budget.

But hey keep cheering champ

do you really believe that? Think about it for a moment. Abbott put in place an income tax levy for high earners and received not one word of praise from the usual suspects - not one. Even you are criticising it! And this was something Labor declined to do! If he had cut the tax exemption on high super returns, do you honestly think that this mob would applaud it? labor didnt do it either. All they did was suggest it. And as you claim to manage a business why do you think cutting corporate assistance would help unemployment?

There is no budget, no measure, no policy Abbott could pass that this crowd would applaud. and Labor and PUP would oppose it no matter what. We already know the Greens would vote against anything.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dsmithy70

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #40 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:36am

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:28am:

Abbott put in place an income tax levy for high earners and received not one word of praise from the usual suspects - not one. Even you are criticising it!

Because its not permanent, unlike the medicare cuts, unlike the increase to Uni fees, unlike the fact anyone under 25 without work or rich parents must either thieve or starve.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:28am:

this mob would applaud it?

This mob is a bunch of partisan hacks killing time on a political board, hardly a respresentive slice of the electorate.

My point stands & your rebuttal is weak.

Had the pain been spread more evenly & either all temporary or permanent then Tones polls numbers would be better & Joe wouldn't look quite so useless.

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« Last Edit: Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:42am by Dsmithy70 »

REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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Kat

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #41 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:43am

Swagman wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:15am:

Kat wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 9:12am:

Swagman wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 8:58am:

John Smith wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 9:52pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 7:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 5^th, 2015 at 7:52pm:

one swallow does not a summer make

you've got one lib that gave us a surplus, and they had to sell the farm to do it. ... whoopdedooo ... they would never have gotten that surplus if it wasn't for Keatings forsight.

Hows W.A. going? The largest mining state in the middle of a mining boom and still posting deficits Grin

he saved $230B. that's an enormous amount of money. By contrast, Labor spent that and more in just 6 years

230B? really ... where did it all go?

Batgatte, Julia's school monuments, vote bribes (AKA stimulus-> AKA future income tax increases) Grin

Still no effing clue, I see... Angry

Ohhh that's right.....there was NO batgatte, NO Julia's school monuments and NO vote bribes (AKA stimulus-> AKA future income tax increases) in Truebelieverland....? Roll Eyes

http://www.emofaces.com/en/smilies/s/see-no-evil-hear-no-evil-speak-no-evil-smil...

Correct.

There might yet be hope for you.

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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt... Reply #42 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:43am Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:36am: Had the pain been spread more evenly & either all temporary or permanent then Tones polls numbers would be better & Joe would look quite so useless. You mean how the Debt levy passed but naught else?
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Dsmithy70

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #43 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:50am

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:28am:

And as you claim to manage a business why do you think cutting corporate assistance would help unemployment?

Why would it increase unemployment?

Peddling more IPA phurfies I see.

No business will employ more people if penalty rates are cut

No business will stop employing people if tax is increased or write offs decreased.

Successful businesses have as many employee's as needed to get the job done.

If I have 6 jobs at 7pm I need 6 drivers regardless of taxes or wage cost, or I refuse bookings or pick 2 to be late arriving, neither option good for my reputation.

Same as any restaurant has as many staff on to provide decent service regardless of cost, they will not put more on if costs are less, why pay someone to stand around for most of their shift believe me I know as I was in that industry for 17 years before this one.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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longweekend58

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Re: It wouldn't be Labor if we weren't in debt...
Reply #44 - Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:59am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:36am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:28am:

Abbott put in place an income tax levy for high earners and received not one word of praise from the usual suspects - not one. Even you are criticising it!

Because its not permanent, unlike the medicare cuts, unlike the increase to Uni fees, unlike the fact anyone under 25 without work or rich parents must either thieve or starve.

longweekend58 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 10:28am:

this mob would applaud it?

This mob is a bunch of partisan hacks killing time on a political board, hardly a respresentive slice of the electorate.

My point stands & your rebuttal is weak.

Had the pain been spread more evenly & either all temporary or permanent then Tones polls numbers would be better & Joe wouldn't look quite so useless.

the pain was spread pretty evenly but because everyone measures these things solely by how it affects them they come up with jaundiced opinions. middle earners have had substantial cuts to welfare payments but that doesn't count, right?

It is the same argument when there are tax cuts of the same percentage across the board. complaints time and time again because the clowns compare dollar values and not percentages.

and if you think the tax levy is temporary then you perhaps forget the experience of other temporary tax surcharges which were extended time and time again. After all, income tax itself was a 'temporary measure'.

And perhaps you forget the politics of all this. As some have said, he could put the budget into toe black in an instant (assuming the senate supported it) but getting rid of super deductability, negative gearing, increasing income taxes for middle and upper earners. and what do you think happens then? Lib vote drops to about 15%, labor wins the next election and turns the $50B surplus into a $50B debt and...

you get the picture. as ugly as it might be, the political reality is that the measures that SHOULD be taken will never be taken. INcrease govt terms to 6 years, reform the senate so it is a house of review and not a house of petty political revenge and then you might see govtsd of both persuasions able to govern and take the hard decisions that need to be taken.

You like Paul Keating so let's use him as an example. Do you think that if he had had a 6 year term as PM and the ability to legislate how he thought it should be that things wouldn't be dramtically different? Ironically he would have introduced a 12.5% GST as he originally wanted.

the problem is our system that precludes anyone of substance ever being able to rule effectively.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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