Australian Politics Forum - Prepare to be educated righties

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #60 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 2:12pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 1:37pm:

Tax cuts do not stimulate spending, except tax cuts to low income earners. The tripling of the tax free threshold saw lots more people take up work, mostly part time, and so spend more.

A GST taxes consumption and so depresses consumption in tough times, like now.

that is so stupid there need to be a better word for just how ignorantly foolish that statement is.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #61 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 2:12pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 1:37pm:

Tax cuts do not stimulate spending, except tax cuts to low income earners. The tripling of the tax free threshold saw lots more people take up work, mostly part time, and so spend more.

A GST taxes consumption and so depresses consumption in tough times, like now.

remarkable. every single statement is dead wrong.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 61420
Here
Gender: male

Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #62 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 3:49pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:57am:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:02am:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 6:33am:

WE would be $30B richer????

the GOVT would be $30B richer and WE (ie you and me) would be $30B poorer.

or did you miss this concept???

I earn fairly good money and am willing to accept that you probably do OK as well however I am nowhere near the top 20% where 80% of this bonus went so no you miss the mark probably nobody here would be much worse off and we would likely all benefit more from a balanced budget.

Now lets have a look at what it does mean.

We are in the position we are because the past Liberal government gave most of their unexpected income to wealthy people and we now see the following Liberal government wanting to recover from this unaffordable splurge by taking money off of the working class and poor in the community.

do you think you could come up with any ideas or opinions that aren't firmly rooted in class-warfare? income tax cuts were the same percentage for everyone. that is the very essence of equality. unless of course you believe that taxation exists in part to punish the high earners - who already pay ten times as much tax as you do now.

The facts speak for themselves in this ?

The Howard government's tax cuts etc did in fact very heavily sway towards the higher income levels. That is a fact and even Howard admitted it in his political death throws when he promised to do better in governing for all Australians next term if re elected.

On the other side of the fence it is also undeniable that the vast majority of the Abbott governments budget savings are coming from those less well off.

Don't ask me about class warfare - ask the Liberal party of Australia.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 61420
Here
Gender: male

Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #63 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 3:54pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 2:11pm:

what planet do you live on? as a rule, people who earn more spend more. that is why so many people can end up in financial trouble even though they have earned huge amounts. Your statement is just plain nonsense.

To a point you are correct, people who earn more also save more, invest more, put more into tax advantaged superannuation and are more involved in tax avoidance and tax minimisation.

Low income earners have little option other than to put 100% of income into the economy, people on higher income have substantially more discretion in this area.

Back to top

IP Logged

Big Donger

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 101769

Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #64 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 4:20pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 2:11pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 12:08pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:27am:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:49am:

The majority of those tax cuts went to the top 10% of income earners

That's funny because they also pay the majority of the tax......do you recognise a correlation there? Roll Eyes

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:49am:

The schizophrenic nature of the government's economic "plan" is not good for investors OR consumer confidence

Tell that to the Opposition in the unrepresentative Senate.

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:49am:

Cutting low incomes, welfare, health and education takes money out of spending. As Australia slides into recession, Joe Hockey is telling people to spend spend spend. However, the government is sending mixed messages by making cuts

That's a catch 22.

Like it or not the people that 'spend the most' are those that 'earn' the disposable incomes to do so.

Funny enough these are the also the people that pay the majority of tax.

So common sense would say that tax cuts or tax hikes to this demographic will therefore have have the most economic impact.

No, people who have more money put more into savings. They invest in real estate, shares, family trusts, etc.

Overall, we're quite democratic with how we spend. People can only eat so much. You can only live in one house at a time or drive one car.
This is why Hockey's faux pas on poor people driving put so much egg on the government's face. Hockey was arguing the rich spend more on petrol. Every talkback caller knows just how farcical this is, and said so.

The rich do not spend a lot more on goods and services than the poor. What they do is invest more. This is why giving tax concessions to invest in superannuation is unfair. The poor do not have extra money to invest. The government loses all that tax revenue, and when they simultaneously cut health, education and welfare, they cut spending.

In boom times this is preferable. In recessive economic conditions, it's a recipe for disaster. As Hockey now acknowledges, what Australia needs to do is spend. Cutting government spending now would put Australia well into the red. If we lose our AAA credit rating, the interest on the deficit goes up, credit is harder to obtain, and this cuts economic growth even more. We're about 1.5% away from a recession now. Our terms of trade is spiralling out of whack.

Your "common sense" is not economic sense. Even Joe Hockey has acknowledged this.

And he apologized profusely for his poor people driving remark which, if you were listening carefully, says much about the Liberals' economic "plan".

what planet do you live on? as a rule, people who earn more spend more. that is why so many people can end up in financial trouble even though they have earned huge amounts. Your statement is just plain nonsense.

Household spending figures do not back up your claim, Longy. The relationship between household income and household spending does not translate to a significant enough gap to warrant tax cuts to the rich to help them spend more. As the majority of people are not on high incomes, it's the low and middle income earners who sustain demand in the economy.

If you tax the rich less, they'll simply save less.

If you tax the poor less (or cut their pensions) they'll spend less.

To suggest otherwise completely lacks common sense. Only an idiot or a liar would make such claims.

Back to top

IP Logged

Big Donger

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 101769

Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #65 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 4:24pm

Dnarever wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 3:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 2:11pm:

what planet do you live on? as a rule, people who earn more spend more. that is why so many people can end up in financial trouble even though they have earned huge amounts. Your statement is just plain nonsense.

To a point you are correct, people who earn more also save more, invest more, put more into tax advantaged superannuation and are more involved in tax avoidance and tax minimisation.

Exactly. And this is why tax concessions for investment in superannuation benefit the rich and help them to pay less tax.

The poor don't save: not because they're spendthrifts but because - surprise surprise - they don't make enough money.

Back to top

IP Logged

Big Donger

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 101769

Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #66 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 4:28pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 2:12pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 1:37pm:

Tax cuts do not stimulate spending, except tax cuts to low income earners. The tripling of the tax free threshold saw lots more people take up work, mostly part time, and so spend more.

A GST taxes consumption and so depresses consumption in tough times, like now.

remarkable. every single statement is dead wrong.

That's strange. Joe Hockey said just that last week - a GST hike will only depress consumption and harm the economy.

Who's right? Joe Hockey (treasurer) or Longy (expert in maths, physics, ethics and now economics)?

Back to top

IP Logged

St George of the Garden Gold Member Offline http://tinyurl.com/n 3o8m2x Posts: 9809 Gender:	Re: Prepare to be educated righties Reply #67 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 4:45pm Longy has a big mouth that he exercises often. Pity it is not backed by facts. Question him and you get abuse.
Back to top	I want Muso as GMod. Bring back Muso! IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #68 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 4:58pm

Dnarever wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 3:49pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:57am:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:02am:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 6:33am:

WE would be $30B richer????

the GOVT would be $30B richer and WE (ie you and me) would be $30B poorer.

or did you miss this concept???

I earn fairly good money and am willing to accept that you probably do OK as well however I am nowhere near the top 20% where 80% of this bonus went so no you miss the mark probably nobody here would be much worse off and we would likely all benefit more from a balanced budget.

Now lets have a look at what it does mean.

We are in the position we are because the past Liberal government gave most of their unexpected income to wealthy people and we now see the following Liberal government wanting to recover from this unaffordable splurge by taking money off of the working class and poor in the community.

do you think you could come up with any ideas or opinions that aren't firmly rooted in class-warfare? income tax cuts were the same percentage for everyone. that is the very essence of equality. unless of course you believe that taxation exists in part to punish the high earners - who already pay ten times as much tax as you do now.

The facts speak for themselves in this ?

The Howard government's tax cuts etc did in fact very heavily sway towards the higher income levels. That is a fact and even Howard admitted it in his political death throws when he promised to do better in governing for all Australians next term if re elected.

On the other side of the fence it is also undeniable that the vast majority of the Abbott governments budget savings are coming from those less well off.

Don't ask me about class warfare - ask the Liberal party of Australia.

they were the same across the board. they were not biased toward the rich.

oh I forget... to understand that requires a level of maths higher than grade 3.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #69 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 5:00pm

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 4:20pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 2:11pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 12:08pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:27am:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:49am:

The majority of those tax cuts went to the top 10% of income earners

That's funny because they also pay the majority of the tax......do you recognise a correlation there? Roll Eyes

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:49am:

The schizophrenic nature of the government's economic "plan" is not good for investors OR consumer confidence

Tell that to the Opposition in the unrepresentative Senate.

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:49am:

Cutting low incomes, welfare, health and education takes money out of spending. As Australia slides into recession, Joe Hockey is telling people to spend spend spend. However, the government is sending mixed messages by making cuts

That's a catch 22.

Like it or not the people that 'spend the most' are those that 'earn' the disposable incomes to do so.

Funny enough these are the also the people that pay the majority of tax.

So common sense would say that tax cuts or tax hikes to this demographic will therefore have have the most economic impact.

No, people who have more money put more into savings. They invest in real estate, shares, family trusts, etc.

Overall, we're quite democratic with how we spend. People can only eat so much. You can only live in one house at a time or drive one car.
This is why Hockey's faux pas on poor people driving put so much egg on the government's face. Hockey was arguing the rich spend more on petrol. Every talkback caller knows just how farcical this is, and said so.

The rich do not spend a lot more on goods and services than the poor. What they do is invest more. This is why giving tax concessions to invest in superannuation is unfair. The poor do not have extra money to invest. The government loses all that tax revenue, and when they simultaneously cut health, education and welfare, they cut spending.

In boom times this is preferable. In recessive economic conditions, it's a recipe for disaster. As Hockey now acknowledges, what Australia needs to do is spend. Cutting government spending now would put Australia well into the red. If we lose our AAA credit rating, the interest on the deficit goes up, credit is harder to obtain, and this cuts economic growth even more. We're about 1.5% away from a recession now. Our terms of trade is spiralling out of whack.

Your "common sense" is not economic sense. Even Joe Hockey has acknowledged this.

And he apologized profusely for his poor people driving remark which, if you were listening carefully, says much about the Liberals' economic "plan".

what planet do you live on? as a rule, people who earn more spend more. that is why so many people can end up in financial trouble even though they have earned huge amounts. Your statement is just plain nonsense.

Household spending figures do not back up your claim, Longy. The relationship between household income and household spending does not translate to a significant enough gap to warrant tax cuts to the rich to help them spend more. As the majority of people are not on high incomes, it's the low and middle income earners who sustain demand in the economy.

If you tax the rich less, they'll simply save less.

If you tax the poor less (or cut their pensions) they'll spend less.

To suggest otherwise completely lacks common sense. Only an idiot or a liar would make such claims.

you are quite simply a liar as you have been for so long. in your febrile mind it is some kind of offence to earn a good wage and therefore demanding punishment.

that is why YOU are poor. poor in spirit as well as poor in money.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #70 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 5:02pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 4:45pm:

Longy has a big mouth that he exercises often. Pity it is not backed by facts. Question him and you get abuse.

George... the maker of such brilliant statements as:

only tax cuts for the poor stimulate the economy
healthcare costs are dropping
the new NBN will cost $200B

and on an on it goes. One unbelievably stupid statement after another.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

Big Donger

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 101769

Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #71 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 5:11pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 5:00pm:

[quote author=Karnal link=1419083322/64#64 date=1419229228]

that is why YOU are poor. poor in spirit as well as poor in money.

Show me where Joe Hockey's argument is poor, Longy.

As sad as it sounds, every day I survive without being killed in a successful terrorist attack to teach the idiots a lesson is a blessing.

Back to top

IP Logged

Big Donger

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 101769

Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #72 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 5:13pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 4:45pm:

Longy has a big mouth that he exercises often. Pity it is not backed by facts. Question him and you get abuse.

Just as long as he doesn't call you an idiot. We all know what that means.

Longy wants you killed:

Quote:

as sad as it sounds, what some idiots in this country need are a successful terrorist attack so they can shut up and the rest of us can go on protecting the country without having to listen to their faux outrage.

Back to top

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #73 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 5:20pm

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 5:13pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 4:45pm:

Longy has a big mouth that he exercises often. Pity it is not backed by facts. Question him and you get abuse.

Just as long as he doesn't call you an idiot. We all know what that means.

Longy wants you killed:

Quote:

as sad as it sounds, what some idiots in this country need are a successful terrorist attack so they can shut up and the rest of us can go on protecting the country without having to listen to their faux outrage.

poor karnal... now I why why you have spent so much time posting in an attempt to be funny. when you try being serious you expose how much of a really dumb lefty twat that you are.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: Prepare to be educated righties Reply #74 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 5:47pm Swagman wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:27am: PS...and the downtrodden benefit from the trickle down Trickle Down Is a Myth, What We Are Seeing Is an Upward Torrent
Back to top	You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument. IP Logged