Australian Politics Forum - Prepare to be educated righties

longweekend58

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #45 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:36am

Swagman wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:27am:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:49am:

The majority of those tax cuts went to the top 10% of income earners

That's funny because they also pay the majority of the tax......do you recognise a correlation there? Roll Eyes

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:49am:

The schizophrenic nature of the government's economic "plan" is not good for investors OR consumer confidence

Tell that to the Opposition in the unrepresentative Senate.

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:49am:

Cutting low incomes, welfare, health and education takes money out of spending. As Australia slides into recession, Joe Hockey is telling people to spend spend spend. However, the government is sending mixed messages by making cuts

That's a catch 22.

Like it or not the people that 'spend the most' are those that 'earn' the disposable incomes to do so.

Funny enough these are the also the people that pay the majority of tax.

So common sense would say that tax cuts or tax hikes to this demographic will therefore have have the most economic impact.

If it wants to increase the money supply the Govt will cut taxes if you want to squeeze it the Govt will increase taxes.

That is why we should have a broader tax system (increased GST) and lower marginal tax rates.

If the Govt wants to stimulate the economic it has to provide incentive to the demographic that will make the most impact which is the demographic that pays the majority of tax.

PS...and the downtrodden benefit from the trickle down Cheesy

they never seem to get that correlation. It could be because - as previously demonstrated - their grasp of even basic mathematics is deeply flawed.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Prepare to be educated righties Reply #46 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:37am longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:36am: they never seem to get that correlation. It could be because - as previously demonstrated - their grasp of even basic mathematics is deeply flawed. thats right longie ... no one does maths like you know maths .. and physics
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Big Donger Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 101679	Re: Prepare to be educated righties Reply #47 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:38am longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:23am: Perhaps if the govt were actually able to govern there might be a better outcome. True, Longy. You said that when JuLiar was in government too, no?
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Swagman

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #48 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:38am

Bam wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 9:54am:

Personal attacks against other posters is abuse and your pretending it's something else doesn't change that. Best not to do it, just in case.

Where is my "personal attack on other posters"?

Bam wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 9:54am:

Quote:
Quote:

Also Dr John would also say that the 'regressive tax boogieman' argument for the GST is C R A P.

Link, please.

Don't need a link Bam it's my opinion....(the whole quote)

Swagman wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 9:30am:

I'd argue that Dr John if given the chance would also comment that his GST package could have delivered over 50% more GST revenue over the last 20 years (last year alone that was around $25 Billion)

Given that tax cuts actually induce spending, and GST taxes spending Howard's tax cuts. The big end of town spends a shite load more than the little end and arguably the GST take would have been much larger minimising any structural impact.

Also Dr John would also say that the 'regressive tax boogieman' argument for the GST is C R A P. Because the bottom end of town are the beneficiaries of taxation

...of course Dr John might disagree but you can provide a link for that..

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John Smith

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #49 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:41am

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:34am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:26am:

Swagman wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 9:30am:

Rudd had the numbers to do exactly that and failed.

Rudd never had the numbers or his ETS would have passed ... besides, he was only in there for a little over a year before he was removed .. in that time he had to deal with the GFC ... once gillard took over things got worse and they had even less control. Abbott voted against every single savings measure they tried to introduce. Cheesy

you must have gone to the adelcrow school of counting years. Rudd became PM in nov 2007 and was removed in march 2010. that is a LOT more than a year.

time flies ....

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longweekend58

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #50 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:42am

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:38am:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:23am:

Perhaps if the govt were actually able to govern there might be a better outcome.

True, Longy. You said that when JuLiar was in government too, no?

I did in fact. I said that I would rather a majority labor govt than a minority. Minority govts have to pander to the indies who have their own agendas and petty hates. and then she had the Greens who supported her when it suited them only. it was a disaster.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Prepare to be educated righties Reply #51 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:44am longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:42am: I did in fact. rriiiiggghhthttt
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longweekend58

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #52 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:44am

Swagman wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:38am:

Bam wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 9:54am:

Personal attacks against other posters is abuse and your pretending it's something else doesn't change that. Best not to do it, just in case.

Where is my "personal attack on other posters"?

Bam wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 9:54am:

Quote:
Quote:

Also Dr John would also say that the 'regressive tax boogieman' argument for the GST is C R A P.

Link, please.

Don't need a link Bam it's my opinion....(the whole quote)

Swagman wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 9:30am:

I'd argue that Dr John if given the chance would also comment that his GST package could have delivered over 50% more GST revenue over the last 20 years (last year alone that was around $25 Billion)

Given that tax cuts actually induce spending, and GST taxes spending Howard's tax cuts. The big end of town spends a shite load more than the little end and arguably the GST take would have been much larger minimising any structural impact.

Also Dr John would also say that the 'regressive tax boogieman' argument for the GST is C R A P. Because the bottom end of town are the beneficiaries of taxation

...of course Dr John might disagree but you can provide a link for that..

perhaps we should start quoting Mark Latham, another embittered failed wannabe PM.

Hewson has been out of politics 20 years. There is a long, long list of politicians who love to vent their thoughts and opinions long after their relevance has evaporated. I don't know why we should listen to him any more than any of the others we routinely ignore.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #53 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:50am

John Smith wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:37am:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:36am:

they never seem to get that correlation. It could be because - as previously demonstrated - their grasp of even basic mathematics is deeply flawed.

thats right longie ... no one does maths like you know maths ..

and physics

Grin

it wouldn't be hard to be better at maths and physics than the boofheads on here. While I am reviewing Quantum Mechanics, you lot can scarcely add and subtract. you certainly cannot multiply or exponentiation.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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John Smith

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #54 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:53am

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:50am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:37am:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:36am:

they never seem to get that correlation. It could be because - as previously demonstrated - their grasp of even basic mathematics is deeply flawed.

thats right longie ... no one does maths like you know maths ..

and physics

Grin

it wouldn't be hard to be better at maths and physics than the boofheads on here. While I am reviewing Quantum Mechanics, you lot can scarcely add and subtract. you certainly cannot multiply or exponentiation.

wow longie, I'm impressed ... you even used a mathematical term .

you're my hero ...

do you mind if I contact you next time i go to coles ?.. I just want to make sure they give me the correct change D Grin

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Big Donger

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #55 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 12:08pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:27am:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:49am:

The majority of those tax cuts went to the top 10% of income earners

That's funny because they also pay the majority of the tax......do you recognise a correlation there? Roll Eyes

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:49am:

The schizophrenic nature of the government's economic "plan" is not good for investors OR consumer confidence

Tell that to the Opposition in the unrepresentative Senate.

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:49am:

Cutting low incomes, welfare, health and education takes money out of spending. As Australia slides into recession, Joe Hockey is telling people to spend spend spend. However, the government is sending mixed messages by making cuts

That's a catch 22.

Like it or not the people that 'spend the most' are those that 'earn' the disposable incomes to do so.

Funny enough these are the also the people that pay the majority of tax.

So common sense would say that tax cuts or tax hikes to this demographic will therefore have have the most economic impact.

No, people who have more money put more into savings. They invest in real estate, shares, family trusts, etc.

Overall, we're quite democratic with how we spend. People can only eat so much. You can only live in one house at a time or drive one car.

This is why Hockey's faux pas on poor people driving put so much egg on the government's face. Hockey was arguing the rich spend more on petrol. Every talkback caller knows just how farcical this is, and said so.

The rich do not spend a lot more on goods and services than the poor. What they do is invest more. This is why giving tax concessions to invest in superannuation is unfair. The poor do not have extra money to invest. The government loses all that tax revenue, and when they simultaneously cut health, education and welfare, they cut spending.

In boom times this is preferable. In recessive economic conditions, it's a recipe for disaster. As Hockey now acknowledges, what Australia needs to do is spend. Cutting government spending now would put Australia well into the red. If we lose our AAA credit rating, the interest on the deficit goes up, credit is harder to obtain, and this cuts economic growth even more. We're about 1.5% away from a recession now. Our terms of trade is spiralling out of whack.

Your "common sense" is not economic sense. Even Joe Hockey has acknowledged this.

And he apologized profusely for his poor people driving remark which, if you were listening carefully, says much about the Liberals' economic "plan".

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Bias_2012

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #56 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 1:02pm

On the mining tax there was gross mismanagement from Whitlam through to Keating. The mining tax should have been set up during Fraser's watch, instead he thought foreign cost toll operations, transfer pricing and world parity pricing were better ideas, they had negative effects on our economy. Even a senate committee comprising libs and labs investigating foreign mining and processing involvement in 1980 drew the same conclusion ... they got it wrong. And now, latter day politicians are whinging their heads off

Keating was the last chance to fix it but he was too ignorant and cracked in the head

A small tax imposed then, would be many extra billions by now, excluding wasteful spending of course

As a result of their shortsightedness at that time, Swan had no hope, the foreign multinationals had become too strong and influential, given international business policies that generally over-ride our sovereignty. Our politicians now think "International" more than "National" and have become weaker, John Howard will tell you ... "It's hard to govern with diminishing sovereignty", he said

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St George of the Garden Gold Member Offline http://tinyurl.com/n 3o8m2x Posts: 9809 Gender:	Re: Prepare to be educated righties Reply #57 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 1:37pm Tax cuts do not stimulate spending, except tax cuts to low income earners. The tripling of the tax free threshold saw lots more people take up work, mostly part time, and so spend more. A GST taxes consumption and so depresses consumption in tough times, like now.
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longweekend58

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #58 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 2:07pm

John Smith wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:53am:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:50am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:37am:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:36am:

they never seem to get that correlation. It could be because - as previously demonstrated - their grasp of even basic mathematics is deeply flawed.

thats right longie ... no one does maths like you know maths ..

and physics

Grin

it wouldn't be hard to be better at maths and physics than the boofheads on here. While I am reviewing Quantum Mechanics, you lot can scarcely add and subtract. you certainly cannot multiply or exponentiation.

wow longie, I'm impressed ... you even used a mathematical term .

you're my hero ...

do you mind if I contact you next time i go to coles ?.. I just want to make sure they give me the correct change D Grin

nah Im pretty sure you can to that although I bet the checkout operator cant!

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #59 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 2:11pm

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 12:08pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:27am:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:49am:

The majority of those tax cuts went to the top 10% of income earners

That's funny because they also pay the majority of the tax......do you recognise a correlation there? Roll Eyes

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:49am:

The schizophrenic nature of the government's economic "plan" is not good for investors OR consumer confidence

Tell that to the Opposition in the unrepresentative Senate.

Big Donger wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 10:49am:

Cutting low incomes, welfare, health and education takes money out of spending. As Australia slides into recession, Joe Hockey is telling people to spend spend spend. However, the government is sending mixed messages by making cuts

That's a catch 22.

Like it or not the people that 'spend the most' are those that 'earn' the disposable incomes to do so.

Funny enough these are the also the people that pay the majority of tax.

So common sense would say that tax cuts or tax hikes to this demographic will therefore have have the most economic impact.

No, people who have more money put more into savings. They invest in real estate, shares, family trusts, etc.

Overall, we're quite democratic with how we spend. People can only eat so much. You can only live in one house at a time or drive one car.
This is why Hockey's faux pas on poor people driving put so much egg on the government's face. Hockey was arguing the rich spend more on petrol. Every talkback caller knows just how farcical this is, and said so.

The rich do not spend a lot more on goods and services than the poor. What they do is invest more. This is why giving tax concessions to invest in superannuation is unfair. The poor do not have extra money to invest. The government loses all that tax revenue, and when they simultaneously cut health, education and welfare, they cut spending.

In boom times this is preferable. In recessive economic conditions, it's a recipe for disaster. As Hockey now acknowledges, what Australia needs to do is spend. Cutting government spending now would put Australia well into the red. If we lose our AAA credit rating, the interest on the deficit goes up, credit is harder to obtain, and this cuts economic growth even more. We're about 1.5% away from a recession now. Our terms of trade is spiralling out of whack.

Your "common sense" is not economic sense. Even Joe Hockey has acknowledged this.

And he apologized profusely for his poor people driving remark which, if you were listening carefully, says much about the Liberals' economic "plan".

what planet do you live on? as a rule, people who earn more spend more. that is why so many people can end up in financial trouble even though they have earned huge amounts. Your statement is just plain nonsense.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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