Australian Politics Forum - Prepare to be educated righties

Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: Prepare to be educated righties Reply #195 - Dec 26^th, 2014 at 8:41am Big Donger wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 12:21am: No, Swagman’s right ....and John Smith's wrong
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John Smith

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #196 - Dec 26^th, 2014 at 9:37am

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 8:34am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 8:07am:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 7:28am:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 12:21am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 25^th, 2014 at 8:07pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 25^th, 2014 at 4:50pm:

Regressive taxes still benefit the downtrodden the most.

rubbish ... they benefit the rich the most, thats why the rich like them so much Cheesy

No, Swagman’s right. The very purpose of taxation is to help those who can’t help themselves. This is why we form societies - to provide mutual benefits we couldn’t possibly achieve on our own.

This isn’t a "leftard" slant, it’s the whole purpose of civilization. Children and old people can’t fend for themselves. They require support.

Likewise, business can’t function without healthy labour, training, licensing regulations, civil courts, a rule of law. Taxes provide funding for all these things.

The tax burden falls on middle income earners because there are more of them. And yes, the big ticket items are welfare, health and education. These benefit low income earners more than anyone else. The rich don’t get Newstart payments and rarely use public hospitals. They can afford private schools. They don’t need subsidized or state housing. They don’t even need to use public transport.

The rich, however, benefit from a safe and stable society. They don’t have to worry about their children being kidnapped or being carjacked at the traffic lights or paying for private security and bodyguards. In countries like Brazil, the Philippines and South Africa, these things are the norm. In Australia, the rich can feel part of society as opposed to bubblewrapped jetsetters.

Our sense of fraternity does set us apart from many hierarchical, deeply entrenched class-based societies, and it’s worth every cent. This is not a leftard argument, it’s deeply conservative. The rich have a duty. Before the rise of neoliberalism, this was called nobless oblige.

Today, we’ve replaced this with taxation, but the moral obligation still exists.

MUTUAL benefits... your words.

that means EVERYONE should benefit not just the badly-named 'poor'

maybe you should have kept reading Cheesy

I read quite fine. it is understanding that is so commonly missed on here.

Is that why you ignored the sections on the benefits to the rich? you didn't understand it Cheesy

....OK! Good of you to admit it!

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John Smith

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #197 - Dec 26^th, 2014 at 9:38am

Swagman wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 8:41am:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 12:21am:

No, Swagman’s right

....and John Smith's wrong Wink

http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Drinks/drinking-43.gif

Impossible .... ask my wife, I'm never wrong. I've already outlined a few benefits for the rich for you Swag, Karnal outlined a few more ... what was wrong?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Prepare to be educated righties Reply #198 - Dec 26^th, 2014 at 9:53am Strange innit that a Labor Government always took stuff away from us. Never helped us. Talk about govern for the working class.
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 90036 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: Prepare to be educated righties Reply #199 - Dec 26^th, 2014 at 10:14am Ah, yes - the old pork barrel for those without need while reducing the rest under the despotism of poverty. Governments have an obligation to govern for all - not just their mates or their own self-selected 'class' or whatever. Where's your flowdown so the peasants can benefit from your easy ride?
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Swagman

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Beware of cheap imitations......

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Illawarra NSW
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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #200 - Dec 26^th, 2014 at 10:30am

John Smith wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 9:38am:

Swagman wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 8:41am:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 12:21am:

No, Swagman’s right

....and John Smith's wrong Wink

http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Drinks/drinking-43.gif

Impossible .... ask my wife, I'm never wrong. I've already outlined a few benefits for the rich for you Swag, Karnal outlined a few more ... what was wrong?

Why? Due to the fact that the govt takes a huge proportion of the income in tax and returns a smidgeon in rebate from the so called rich. That is just shuffling deck chairs, smoke and mirrors, slight of hand stuff. Not a benefit but a con.

If you want to gauge what society segment benefits the most then simply consider the effect of closing down Centerlink and halting all social security payments. Pensions, FTB, Newstart etc.

Who would that effect the most? Huh

The so-called rich receive nothing from this source.

This alone is evidence that the 'strugglers' of society are the primary beneficiaries of all taxation including those evil regressive taxes.

Therefore the greater the success of the rich the more tax they pay and the greater the benefit received by the 'strugglers'.

Trickle down is not a myth and the GST is not a boogie man... Grin

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longweekend58

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #201 - Dec 26^th, 2014 at 12:48pm

John Smith wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 9:37am:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 8:34am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 8:07am:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 7:28am:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 12:21am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 25^th, 2014 at 8:07pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 25^th, 2014 at 4:50pm:

Regressive taxes still benefit the downtrodden the most.

rubbish ... they benefit the rich the most, thats why the rich like them so much Cheesy

No, Swagman’s right. The very purpose of taxation is to help those who can’t help themselves. This is why we form societies - to provide mutual benefits we couldn’t possibly achieve on our own.

This isn’t a "leftard" slant, it’s the whole purpose of civilization. Children and old people can’t fend for themselves. They require support.

Likewise, business can’t function without healthy labour, training, licensing regulations, civil courts, a rule of law. Taxes provide funding for all these things.

The tax burden falls on middle income earners because there are more of them. And yes, the big ticket items are welfare, health and education. These benefit low income earners more than anyone else. The rich don’t get Newstart payments and rarely use public hospitals. They can afford private schools. They don’t need subsidized or state housing. They don’t even need to use public transport.

The rich, however, benefit from a safe and stable society. They don’t have to worry about their children being kidnapped or being carjacked at the traffic lights or paying for private security and bodyguards. In countries like Brazil, the Philippines and South Africa, these things are the norm. In Australia, the rich can feel part of society as opposed to bubblewrapped jetsetters.

Our sense of fraternity does set us apart from many hierarchical, deeply entrenched class-based societies, and it’s worth every cent. This is not a leftard argument, it’s deeply conservative. The rich have a duty. Before the rise of neoliberalism, this was called nobless oblige.

Today, we’ve replaced this with taxation, but the moral obligation still exists.

MUTUAL benefits... your words.

that means EVERYONE should benefit not just the badly-named 'poor'

maybe you should have kept reading Cheesy

I read quite fine. it is understanding that is so commonly missed on here.

Is that why you ignored the sections on the benefits to the rich? you didn't understand it Cheesy

....OK! Good of you to admit it!

because there was no such section. there are NO benefits the rich get that everybody does not also enjoy.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #202 - Dec 26^th, 2014 at 1:43pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 10:30am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 9:38am:

Swagman wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 8:41am:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 12:21am:

No, Swagman’s right

....and John Smith's wrong Wink

http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Drinks/drinking-43.gif

Impossible .... ask my wife, I'm never wrong. I've already outlined a few benefits for the rich for you Swag, Karnal outlined a few more ... what was wrong?

Why? Due to the fact that the govt takes a huge proportion of the income in tax and returns a smidgeon in rebate from the so called rich. That is just shuffling deck chairs, smoke and mirrors, slight of hand stuff. Not a benefit but a con.

If you want to gauge what society segment benefits the most then simply consider the effect of closing down Centerlink and halting all social security payments. Pensions, FTB, Newstart etc.

Who would that effect the most? Huh

The so-called rich receive nothing from this source.

This alone is evidence that the 'strugglers' of society are the primary beneficiaries of all taxation including those evil regressive taxes.

Therefore the greater the success of the rich the more tax they pay and the greater the benefit received by the 'strugglers'.

Trickle down is not a myth and the GST is not a boogie man... Grin

So you advocate that only the rich should be allowed to live?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Big Donger Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 101641	Re: Prepare to be educated righties Reply #203 - Dec 26^th, 2014 at 1:53pm Andrei.Hicks wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 9:53am: Strange innit that a Labor Government always took stuff away from us. Never helped us. Talk about govern for the working class. Strange that you were a British citizen the whole time the Labor government was in. Innit.
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John Smith

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #204 - Dec 26^th, 2014 at 1:54pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 12:48pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 9:37am:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 8:34am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 8:07am:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 7:28am:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 12:21am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 25^th, 2014 at 8:07pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 25^th, 2014 at 4:50pm:

Regressive taxes still benefit the downtrodden the most.

rubbish ... they benefit the rich the most, thats why the rich like them so much Cheesy

No, Swagman’s right. The very purpose of taxation is to help those who can’t help themselves. This is why we form societies - to provide mutual benefits we couldn’t possibly achieve on our own.

This isn’t a "leftard" slant, it’s the whole purpose of civilization. Children and old people can’t fend for themselves. They require support.

Likewise, business can’t function without healthy labour, training, licensing regulations, civil courts, a rule of law. Taxes provide funding for all these things.

The tax burden falls on middle income earners because there are more of them. And yes, the big ticket items are welfare, health and education. These benefit low income earners more than anyone else. The rich don’t get Newstart payments and rarely use public hospitals. They can afford private schools. They don’t need subsidized or state housing. They don’t even need to use public transport.

The rich, however, benefit from a safe and stable society. They don’t have to worry about their children being kidnapped or being carjacked at the traffic lights or paying for private security and bodyguards. In countries like Brazil, the Philippines and South Africa, these things are the norm. In Australia, the rich can feel part of society as opposed to bubblewrapped jetsetters.

Our sense of fraternity does set us apart from many hierarchical, deeply entrenched class-based societies, and it’s worth every cent. This is not a leftard argument, it’s deeply conservative. The rich have a duty. Before the rise of neoliberalism, this was called nobless oblige.

Today, we’ve replaced this with taxation, but the moral obligation still exists.

MUTUAL benefits... your words.

that means EVERYONE should benefit not just the badly-named 'poor'

maybe you should have kept reading Cheesy

I read quite fine. it is understanding that is so commonly missed on here.

Is that why you ignored the sections on the benefits to the rich? you didn't understand it Cheesy

....OK! Good of you to admit it!

because there was no such section. there are NO benefits the rich get that everybody does not also enjoy.

in theory maybe, but reality isn't quite that simple ... how many people on $30k a year can afford to pay extra into their super? How many can afford to pay real accountants to find loop holes rather than go to a shopping centre tax centre? how many use shares, trusts etc to minimise tax? how many can afford to invest in property so as to get some tax benefits ?.. sure they're allowed to, but thats like telling telling someone they own Saturn ... whoopdedooo Cheesy

keep your head up your arse longie, you seem happier that way

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #205 - Dec 26^th, 2014 at 1:55pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 10:30am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 9:38am:

Swagman wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 8:41am:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 12:21am:

No, Swagman’s right

....and John Smith's wrong Wink

http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Drinks/drinking-43.gif

Impossible .... ask my wife, I'm never wrong. I've already outlined a few benefits for the rich for you Swag, Karnal outlined a few more ... what was wrong?

Why? Due to the fact that the govt takes a huge proportion of the income in tax and returns a smidgeon in rebate from the so called rich. That is just shuffling deck chairs, smoke and mirrors, slight of hand stuff. Not a benefit but a con.

If you want to gauge what society segment benefits the most then simply consider the effect of closing down Centerlink and halting all social security payments. Pensions, FTB, Newstart etc.

Who would that effect the most? Huh

The so-called rich receive nothing from this source.

This alone is evidence that the 'strugglers' of society are the primary beneficiaries of all taxation including those evil regressive taxes.

Therefore the greater the success of the rich the more tax they pay and the greater the benefit received by the 'strugglers'.

Trickle down is not a myth and the GST is not a boogie man... Grin

yes, I know your logic Swag ... if it goes to an unemployed it's a benefit, if it goes to the rich it's not a benefit but a rebate Cheesy

Keep it up! Roll Eyes

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Big Donger

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #206 - Dec 26^th, 2014 at 1:59pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 10:30am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 9:38am:

Swagman wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 8:41am:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 12:21am:

No, Swagman’s right

....and John Smith's wrong Wink

http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Drinks/drinking-43.gif

Impossible .... ask my wife, I'm never wrong. I've already outlined a few benefits for the rich for you Swag, Karnal outlined a few more ... what was wrong?

Why? Due to the fact that the govt takes a huge proportion of the income in tax and returns a smidgeon in rebate from the so called rich. That is just shuffling deck chairs, smoke and mirrors, slight of hand stuff. Not a benefit but a con.

If you want to gauge what society segment benefits the most then simply consider the effect of closing down Centerlink and halting all social security payments. Pensions, FTB, Newstart etc.

Who would that effect the most? Huh

The so-called rich receive nothing from this source.

Exactly. You’re on fire today, Swagman. "The rich" don’t qualify for the dole.

One thing "the rich" do get is subsidized private schools. This alone costs the budget a few bil.

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John Smith

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #207 - Dec 26^th, 2014 at 2:02pm

Big Donger wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 1:59pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 10:30am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 9:38am:

Swagman wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 8:41am:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 12:21am:

No, Swagman’s right

....and John Smith's wrong Wink

http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Drinks/drinking-43.gif

Impossible .... ask my wife, I'm never wrong. I've already outlined a few benefits for the rich for you Swag, Karnal outlined a few more ... what was wrong?

Why? Due to the fact that the govt takes a huge proportion of the income in tax and returns a smidgeon in rebate from the so called rich. That is just shuffling deck chairs, smoke and mirrors, slight of hand stuff. Not a benefit but a con.

If you want to gauge what society segment benefits the most then simply consider the effect of closing down Centerlink and halting all social security payments. Pensions, FTB, Newstart etc.

Who would that effect the most? Huh

The so-called rich receive nothing from this source.

Exactly. You’re on fire today, Swagman. "The rich" don’t qualify for the dole.

One thing "the rich" do get is subsidized private schools. This alone costs the budget a few bil.

you could give him examples until you're blue in the face, he'll still deny it

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Big Donger

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #208 - Dec 26^th, 2014 at 2:26pm

John Smith wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 2:02pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 1:59pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 10:30am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 9:38am:

Swagman wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 8:41am:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 26^th, 2014 at 12:21am:

No, Swagman’s right

....and John Smith's wrong Wink

http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Drinks/drinking-43.gif

Impossible .... ask my wife, I'm never wrong. I've already outlined a few benefits for the rich for you Swag, Karnal outlined a few more ... what was wrong?

Why? Due to the fact that the govt takes a huge proportion of the income in tax and returns a smidgeon in rebate from the so called rich. That is just shuffling deck chairs, smoke and mirrors, slight of hand stuff. Not a benefit but a con.

If you want to gauge what society segment benefits the most then simply consider the effect of closing down Centerlink and halting all social security payments. Pensions, FTB, Newstart etc.

Who would that effect the most? Huh

The so-called rich receive nothing from this source.

Exactly. You’re on fire today, Swagman. "The rich" don’t qualify for the dole.

One thing "the rich" do get is subsidized private schools. This alone costs the budget a few bil.

you could give him examples until you're blue in the face, he'll still deny it

So far, we’ve got subsidized private schools, untaxed income that goes into super - what else?

How about negative gearing? There are plenty of others.

If we got rid of these perks, we’d be in surplus in two years time.

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John Smith

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #209 - Dec 26^th, 2014 at 2:32pm

you forgot private health ...

one of my favourites that I get a lot of in my job ... i often get interstate landlords phone me saying, '' john, I'll be up on the GC next week, can you tell the ATO that I came to see my property please'... 'of course, I know your busy and I trust that you're looking after it properly, so I won't really waste your time or bother the tenant '

their purpose for the call, so that they can claim the trip as a tax deduction Cheesy

they get a tax deductable holiday with their families, and can't be bothered taking out 30 mins of their holiday to even look at their property Cheesy

... at least the poorer landlord always makes the extra effort and stops by to see the property

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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