Australian Politics Forum - Prepare to be educated righties

Big Donger

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #135 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:21pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:08pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 2:59pm:

The Medicare Levy surcharge kicks in at $88,000, Longy.

the medicare levy , and the medicare levy surcharge are tow different things

the first is the medicare levy you are thinking off , the second is the libs trying to force me onto private health insurance ... you only pay it if you don't have private cover.

you are correct, I confused the two. You might do to remember that the surcharge has been around for decades.

No, the surcharge was introduced by the Howard government. JS is right - it was a policy proposed by the insurance lobbies to encourage people into private health insurance.

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John Smith

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #136 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:22pm

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:15pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:08pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 2:59pm:

The Medicare Levy surcharge kicks in at $88,000, Longy.

the medicare levy , and the medicare levy surcharge are tow different things

the first is the medicare levy you are thinking off , the second is the libs trying to force me onto private health insurance ... you only pay it if you don't have private cover.

Do lower income earners also pay a levy at tax time?

everyone has the medicare levy added to their tax .. however, you may at the end still be given a tax refund depending on your circumstances ...

I think the current rate is 1.5% although Gillard had talked about raising it to fund the NDIS... not sure if that went through or not.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Bam

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #137 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:46pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 2:33pm:

not buying into the debate without figures but the median and average are two very different measurments.

Wrong. Median IS an average. Roll Eyes

So are the mean and mode.

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:08pm:

the first is the medicare levy you are thinking off , the second is the libs trying to force me onto private health insurance ... you only pay it if you don't have private cover.

you are correct, I confused the two. You might do to remember that the surcharge has been around for decades.

Not really, the Medicare levy surcharge was introduced on July 1, 1997.

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:34am:

you must have gone to the adelcrow school of counting years. Rudd became PM in nov 2007

Wrong. 3 December, 2007.
Quote:

and was removed in march 2010.

Wrong again. Gillard challenged Rudd on June 24, 2010.

How many times can you be wrong in a single thread?

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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longweekend58

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #138 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:52pm

Bam wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 2:33pm:

not buying into the debate without figures but the median and average are two very different measurments.

Wrong. Median IS an average. Roll Eyes

So are the mean and mode.

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:08pm:

the first is the medicare levy you are thinking off , the second is the libs trying to force me onto private health insurance ... you only pay it if you don't have private cover.

you are correct, I confused the two. You might do to remember that the surcharge has been around for decades.

Not really, the Medicare levy surcharge was introduced on July 1, 1997.

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:34am:

you must have gone to the adelcrow school of counting years. Rudd became PM in nov 2007

Wrong. 3 December, 2007.
Quote:

and was removed in march 2010.

Wrong again. Gillard challenged Rudd on June 24, 2010.

How many times can you be wrong in a single thread?

and did it occur to you that 'average' in this context was clearly arithmetic mean and I was stating that there is a difference between median and arithmetic mean.

I note you ahev had no input on the 'rich pay it all' thread. nor has karnal or most of the usual suspects. Perhaps the facts are too hard, the analysis too daunting and the bottom line too unpalatable?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #139 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 4:04pm

Bam wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 2:33pm:

not buying into the debate without figures but the median and average are two very different measurments.

Wrong. Median IS an average. Roll Eyes

So are the mean and mode.

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:08pm:

the first is the medicare levy you are thinking off , the second is the libs trying to force me onto private health insurance ... you only pay it if you don't have private cover.

you are correct, I confused the two. You might do to remember that the surcharge has been around for decades.

Not really, the Medicare levy surcharge was introduced on July 1, 1997.

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 11:34am:

you must have gone to the adelcrow school of counting years. Rudd became PM in nov 2007

Wrong. 3 December, 2007.
Quote:

and was removed in march 2010.

Wrong again. Gillard challenged Rudd on June 24, 2010.

How many times can you be wrong in a single thread?

and you think that changes anything in the argument? the claim was that Rudd was PM for 'little over a year'.

grow up. and how about join the other thread and show off your self-vaunted intellect.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Swagman

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #140 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 5:47pm

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 2:22pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 2:06pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 1:29pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 1:13pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 10:33am:

Hang on - the top 25% are those with incomes over $75,000?

How could that possibly be right? That's almost the average wage.

Now yes, but the data is 11/12 FY. Tax share of the top 25% has steadilly increased from 60% in 1996 to 67% 11/12 Huh

Wages growth has been stable since 2011/12. The average annual wage in Australia (November, 2013) is $74, 724.

Your figures are wrong.

My figures are sourced, yours aren't.....

True, but how can all incomes above the average wage only be 25% of income earners?

This isn't statistically possible.

Why isn't it statistically possible?

https://www.ato.gov.au/About-ATO/Research-and-statistics/In-detail/Tax-statistic...

more ATO data

.

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longweekend58

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #141 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 6:06pm

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 5:47pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 2:22pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 2:06pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 1:29pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 1:13pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 10:33am:

Hang on - the top 25% are those with incomes over $75,000?

How could that possibly be right? That's almost the average wage.

Now yes, but the data is 11/12 FY. Tax share of the top 25% has steadilly increased from 60% in 1996 to 67% 11/12 Huh

Wages growth has been stable since 2011/12. The average annual wage in Australia (November, 2013) is $74, 724.

Your figures are wrong.

My figures are sourced, yours aren't.....

True, but how can all incomes above the average wage only be 25% of income earners?

This isn't statistically possible.

Why isn't it statistically possible?

https://www.ato.gov.au/About-ATO/Research-and-statistics/In-detail/Tax-statistic...

more ATO data

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/Nettaxbytaxbracket.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/taxbytaxbracket2.jpg
.

why is this so hard for karnal and the other mathematically-challenged posters, to get? surely it isn't that hard?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Big Donger

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #142 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 7:01pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 6:06pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 5:47pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 2:22pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 2:06pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 1:29pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 1:13pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 10:33am:

Hang on - the top 25% are those with incomes over $75,000?

How could that possibly be right? That's almost the average wage.

Now yes, but the data is 11/12 FY. Tax share of the top 25% has steadilly increased from 60% in 1996 to 67% 11/12 Huh

Wages growth has been stable since 2011/12. The average annual wage in Australia (November, 2013) is $74, 724.

Your figures are wrong.

My figures are sourced, yours aren't.....

True, but how can all incomes above the average wage only be 25% of income earners?

This isn't statistically possible.

Why isn't it statistically possible?

https://www.ato.gov.au/About-ATO/Research-and-statistics/In-detail/Tax-statistic...

more ATO data

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/Nettaxbytaxbracket.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/taxbytaxbracket2.jpg
.

why is this so hard for karnal and the other mathematically-challenged posters, to get? surely it isn't that hard?

Yes, Longy, it’s a real struggle.

Have a look at Swagman’s figures. Middle income earners (between $37,000 and $180,0000) pay 70% of all income tax.

What were you saying about high income earners and tax again, Swagman?

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longweekend58

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #143 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 7:04pm

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 7:01pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 6:06pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 5:47pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 2:22pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 2:06pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 1:29pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 1:13pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 10:33am:

Hang on - the top 25% are those with incomes over $75,000?

How could that possibly be right? That's almost the average wage.

Now yes, but the data is 11/12 FY. Tax share of the top 25% has steadilly increased from 60% in 1996 to 67% 11/12 Huh

Wages growth has been stable since 2011/12. The average annual wage in Australia (November, 2013) is $74, 724.

Your figures are wrong.

My figures are sourced, yours aren't.....

True, but how can all incomes above the average wage only be 25% of income earners?

This isn't statistically possible.

Why isn't it statistically possible?

https://www.ato.gov.au/About-ATO/Research-and-statistics/In-detail/Tax-statistic...

more ATO data

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/Nettaxbytaxbracket.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/taxbytaxbracket2.jpg
.

why is this so hard for karnal and the other mathematically-challenged posters, to get? surely it isn't that hard?

Yes, Longy, it’s a real struggle.

Have a look at Swagman’s figures. Middle income earners (between $37,000 and $180,0000) pay 70% of all income tax.

What were you saying about high income earners and tax again, Swagman?

what kind of a pointless statement is that?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Big Donger

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #144 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 7:14pm

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 7:04pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 7:01pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 6:06pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 5:47pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 2:22pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 2:06pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 1:29pm:

Swagman wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 1:13pm:

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 10:33am:

Hang on - the top 25% are those with incomes over $75,000?

How could that possibly be right? That's almost the average wage.

Now yes, but the data is 11/12 FY. Tax share of the top 25% has steadilly increased from 60% in 1996 to 67% 11/12 Huh

Wages growth has been stable since 2011/12. The average annual wage in Australia (November, 2013) is $74, 724.

Your figures are wrong.

My figures are sourced, yours aren't.....

True, but how can all incomes above the average wage only be 25% of income earners?

This isn't statistically possible.

Why isn't it statistically possible?

https://www.ato.gov.au/About-ATO/Research-and-statistics/In-detail/Tax-statistic...

more ATO data

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/Nettaxbytaxbracket.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/taxbytaxbracket2.jpg
.

why is this so hard for karnal and the other mathematically-challenged posters, to get? surely it isn't that hard?

Yes, Longy, it’s a real struggle.

Have a look at Swagman’s figures. Middle income earners (between $37,000 and $180,0000) pay 70% of all income tax.

What were you saying about high income earners and tax again, Swagman?

what kind of a pointless statement is that?

Only the sort of pointless argument that middle income earners pay the bulk of income taxes.

The school vouchers are in the post.

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Swagman

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #145 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 7:44pm

Big Donger wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 7:01pm:

Have a look at Swagman’s figures. Middle income earners (between $37,000 and $180,0000) pay 70% of all income tax. What were you saying about high income earners and tax again, Swagman?

Your 'middle' earners Karnal would be those between $37k - $80k in that table. According to ATO data 11/12 they paid 32.8% of tax and represent 37.3% of tax payers.

High income earners would be $80k +. You'll likely find that that is where the medicare surcharge kicks in (or did back then)

High income earners from that chart represent 16.7% of tax payers

but pay 63.6% of net tax

.

As I mentioned earlier

The tax system redistributes income from those that make it to those that don't.

The more income that those that make it, make, the more redistributed income those that don't make it, get.

Therefore obviously the better it is for the those that make it, the better it is for those that don't -> AKA, trickle down theory demonstrated

I guess it's a myth that trickle down is a myth Cheesy

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St George of the Garden Gold Member Offline http://tinyurl.com/n 3o8m2x Posts: 9809 Gender:	Re: Prepare to be educated righties Reply #146 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 7:47pm Somebody who declares $180,001+ in income to the ATO probably earned rather more than that.
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St George of the Garden Gold Member Offline http://tinyurl.com/n 3o8m2x Posts: 9809 Gender:	Re: Prepare to be educated righties Reply #147 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 7:48pm Somebody who declares $180,001+ in income to the ATO probably earned rather more than that. Longy never analyses a problem before he jumps in. Crap maths.
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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: Prepare to be educated righties Reply #148 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 7:59pm ...bin on the Xmas schnapps Georgie?
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Dnarever

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Re: Prepare to be educated righties
Reply #149 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 8:17pm

Quote:

But they also seriously undermined the structural integrity of the budget by making big spending commitments and giving huge tax cuts, on the basis of a flood of revenue that would inevitably dry up

Sounds a lot like what I have been saying for a while now and it is right, They had geared our economy to fail under pressure which was inevitable.

Quote:

John Hewson, former Liberal leader, economist and now professor with the Crawford School of Public Policy at the Australian National University, underlines the point: “The tax cuts Howard and Costello gave are now costing [the budget] about $30 billion a year, and the deficit’s $40 billion.”

Without those cuts and the $9 billion Hockey gave – unasked for and against the will of treasury – to the Reserve Bank, says Hewson, “the deficit problem wouldn’t exist”.

And that’s without including some $40 billion in tax concessions for superannuation, which accrue overwhelmingly to the wealthiest 20 per cent of taxpayers.

You can not really blame them a lot for screwing it up but gee they done a good job of it, we will be paying their debt back for a decade if we are lucky.

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