Australian Politics Forum - Terrorist protested Terror laws

jackmountain

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Re: Terrorist protested Terror laws
Reply #45 - Dec 20^th, 2014 at 1:08pm

moses wrote on Dec 20^th, 2014 at 12:36pm:

Brian Ross wrote: Quote:

Yet you seem to believe Islam is monolithic.

All major religions suffer schism, Moses. Just as Christianity has, so has Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. Schism occurs invariably over differences in belief and doctrine.

You accept that Christianity is not monolithic but you don't accept Islam isn't either. Why? Perhaps because it makes it easier for you to justify your bigotry to create a cartoon caricature of Islam in your mind.

Your rigidity of thinking marks you out as a great potential recruit for any Terrorist organisation, Moses.

Can you show me:

two or more textual versions of the qur'an?

two or more authors of the qur'an?

two or more doctrines for jihad?

two or more doctrines for hijrah?

two or more doctrines for taqiyya and kitman?

two or more doctrines for self alienation from normal society?

two or more doctrines for hate speech?

two or more doctrines for torture and murder of hypocrites / disbelievers / corrupters?

two or more doctrines for a prophet of islam has to be a mass murderer?

Total uniformity of doctrine = monolithic.

Quote:

Out of a matter of interest, do you think Yadda is a Christian, despite him quoting extensively from The Old Testament to justify his attitudes towards Muslims and Islam?

Clarify which parts of the O.T. Yadda uses. Elucidate your statement he is a Christian.

Old Brian is a bit slow obviously. He googles as he posts on islam give the old boy a chance.

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Soren

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Re: Terrorist protested Terror laws
Reply #46 - Dec 20^th, 2014 at 1:40pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 20^th, 2014 at 1:03pm:

*SIGH*

There only difference between the versions of The Bible are the language in which it is written.

Christian core beliefs are the same across all denominations of Christianity.

Christianity is based upon both The Old Testament and The New.

etc., etc., etc., Moses.

In Islam, there are just as many differences in belief as there are Muslims. Remember, there is nothing between the believer and Allah, according to Islam. Unlike of course Christianity where there is multiple layers of Priest, Church and doctrine.

You seem to know all about differences. Tell us, then - what is the fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam?

Please explain, Brain.

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moses

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Re: Terrorist protested Terror laws
Reply #47 - Dec 20^th, 2014 at 1:43pm

Brian Ross wrote Quote:

There only difference between the versions of The Bible are the language in which it is written.

you say the only difference is language?

Quote:

Christian core beliefs are the same across all denominations of Christianity.

Christianity is based upon both The Old Testament and The New.

etc., etc., etc., Moses.

I've already said that they are **closely aligned, sharing common attributes, monolithic no.**

They are not monolithic because of the varying core tenets, Protestants do not share the core values the Catholics put on the papacy.

There are multiple sources in the Bible: prophets, prophetesses, teachings of Christ, gospels according to apostles, deacons, letters of faith, religious instructions, book of revelations etc.

Quote:

In Islam, there are just as many differences in belief as there are Muslims. Remember, there is nothing between the believer and Allah, according to Islam. Unlike of course Christianity where there is multiple layers of Priest, Church and doctrine.

The various muslims are stuck with one and one only qur'an, one author, each aspect of the terror dogma contained in the qur'an has it's own single doctrine urging the said facet of hate, torture and murder.

The facts are that if muslims support these teachings as infallible, perfect and never to be changed, they support the atrocities they spawn.

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Soren

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Re: Terrorist protested Terror laws
Reply #48 - Dec 20^th, 2014 at 9:59pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 20^th, 2014 at 12:12pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 8:30pm:

Which Islamic denomination is 'good' and which is 'bad'. How do you decide?

Body count? Number of books translated? Number of critics killed/not killed? How?

What is your method, Brain, for telling toxic Islam from lovely Islam?

The same way you tell a good Catholic from a bad Lutheran, Soren. By the actions of the individual. Man Haron Monis was bad person who also happened to be a Muslim. Rather like how Wade Michael Page was a bad man who also happened to be a Christian. Of course, the idea may run counter to your views on Guilt by Association and Collective Guilt, Soren but hey, you might want to give it a try? Roll Eyes

I am asking you about Islamic ideology, Brain, not individuals.

Which Islamic ideology is good and which one is bad.
You keep telling us there us a rainbow of Islam. Tell us which sunni and shia interpretaions are good and which are bad.

I want to know how to tell good Islam from bad Islam, Islam that makes Muslims good and Islam that makes them bad.
You keep telling us that Islam is not monolithic. You must know how to tell good Islam from bad Islam.

And while you are at it, do tell us what the fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam is?

Share, Brain, share.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Terrorist protested Terror laws
Reply #49 - Dec 20^th, 2014 at 10:24pm

moses wrote on Dec 20^th, 2014 at 1:43pm:

Brian Ross wrote Quote:

There only difference between the versions of The Bible are the language in which it is written.

you say the only difference is language?

Essentially yes. However, if you wish to discuss the Apocrypha, removed by Luther from his German edition of The Bible in 1522 CE or the Lost Gospels which were discarded by the early Church before 397 CE, then yes, there were different versions of The Bible. However, after that date and until Luther's editing, The Bible remained essentially the same book.

Perhaps you'd like to explain what happened to the Gospel of St. Thomas? The Gospel according to Judas? All make fascinating reading but they aren't amongst the books of The Bible, now are they, Moses? Why?

Quote:

Quote:

Christian core beliefs are the same across all denominations of Christianity.

Christianity is based upon both The Old Testament and The New.

etc., etc., etc., Moses.

I've already said that they are **closely aligned, sharing common attributes, monolithic no.**

They are not monolithic because of the varying core tenets, Protestants do not share the core values the Catholics put on the papacy.

There are multiple sources in the Bible: prophets, prophetesses, teachings of Christ, gospels according to apostles, deacons, letters of faith, religious instructions, book of revelations etc.

Sources possibly. Authorship and editing, no.

Quote:

Quote:

In Islam, there are just as many differences in belief as there are Muslims. Remember, there is nothing between the believer and Allah, according to Islam. Unlike of course Christianity where there is multiple layers of Priest, Church and doctrine.

The various muslims are stuck with one and one only qur'an, one author, each aspect of the terror dogma contained in the qur'an has it's own single doctrine urging the said facet of hate, torture and murder.

Yet, at the same time Muslims - who after all are the believers and the understanders of Mohammed's heritage, Moses will maintain the reverse.

Just as Christians today embrace the lovey-dovey, happy-clappy aspects of their religion and hide from it's bloody heritage, so have modern Muslims created a different interpretation of their religion. We should be encouraging that, Moses. You, however seem mired in the 7th century CE, as are the Islamists and fundamentalists. Roll Eyes

Quote:

The facts are that if muslims support these teachings as infallible, perfect and never to be changed, they support the atrocities they spawn.

Yet we have evidence to the contrary, Moses. Roll Eyes

The reality is that your mindset is that of the rigid zealot, the Takfiri, as the Muslims call them. For them and you, nothing can change, nothing ever has changed. You may claim to be a Christian but you've definitely missed Christ's message. Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: Terrorist protested Terror laws
Reply #50 - Dec 20^th, 2014 at 10:44pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 20^th, 2014 at 10:24pm:

Just as Christians today embrace the lovey-dovey, happy-clappy aspects of their religion and hide from it's bloody heritage, so have modern Muslims created a different interpretation of their religion. We should be encouraging that, Moses. You, however seem mired in the 7th century CE, as are the Islamists and fundamentalists. Roll Eyes

What is that different interpretation? Mohammed is no good, jihad is no good, sharia is off, Allah is not a completely unpredictable, unfathomable Eastern potentate?

WHat is new in Islam? WHo authorised this new Islam?

Tell us, Brain, you seem to know what nobody else knows.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Terrorist protested Terror laws
Reply #51 - Dec 22^nd, 2014 at 5:30pm

Soren wrote on Dec 20^th, 2014 at 9:59pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 20^th, 2014 at 12:12pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 19^th, 2014 at 8:30pm:

Which Islamic denomination is 'good' and which is 'bad'. How do you decide?

Body count? Number of books translated? Number of critics killed/not killed? How?

What is your method, Brain, for telling toxic Islam from lovely Islam?

The same way you tell a good Catholic from a bad Lutheran, Soren. By the actions of the individual. Man Haron Monis was bad person who also happened to be a Muslim. Rather like how Wade Michael Page was a bad man who also happened to be a Christian. Of course, the idea may run counter to your views on Guilt by Association and Collective Guilt, Soren but hey, you might want to give it a try? Roll Eyes

I am asking you about Islamic ideology, Brain, not individuals.

Which Islamic ideology is good and which one is bad.
You keep telling us there us a rainbow of Islam. Tell us which sunni and shia interpretaions are good and which are bad.

Why not ask the Muslims themselves? Oh, thats right, they all believe in Taqiyya, don't they, Soren? Can't you trust anything any of them say? If you can't, how you can you trust what the ones who want to behead you have to say? Oh, the paradox! Roll Eyes

In reality, just as in individuals, perhaps it might be better to examine not only what they say, individually as well as what they do, rather than trying to judge them collectively as a group? Otherwise that Wade Michael Page fellow might make sure we judge ALL Christians by his views and actions... Roll Eyes

Quote:

I want to know how to tell good Islam from bad Islam, Islam that makes Muslims good and Islam that makes them bad.

As I keep saying, Soren, ask them.

Do you assume all Christians tell the truth about their religion? All Jews? All Hindus? All Taoists? All Shinto? All Pagans? All Satanists? Roll Eyes

Quote:

You keep telling us that Islam is not monolithic. You must know how to tell good Islam from bad Islam.

Generally I ask them and then actually listen to what they say, rather than hear what my prejudices tell me, Soren. You might like to give it a try, it would I feel make a considerable difference... Roll Eyes

Quote:

And while you are at it, do tell us what the fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam is?

Share, Brain, share.

You might find this website useful, Soren. You should use it, it appears you need all the help you can get if you're asking this question this far into the discussion! Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: Terrorist protested Terror laws
Reply #52 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 10:21am

You are talking but you are not saying much.
Tell us how to tell good Muslims from bad ones. You have asked them, you have listened to the anwsers - what did they tell you?

Also, you want to educate us all the time but now you won't tell us the fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam. Tell us, Brain. Or don't you know?

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Brian Ross

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Re: Terrorist protested Terror laws
Reply #53 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:02pm

Soren wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 10:21am:

You are talking but you are not saying much.
Tell us how to tell good Muslims from bad ones. You have asked them, you have listened to the anwsers - what did they tell you?

The same things that most people say, Soren. They want to be left alone, to enjoy their lives, raise their kids and prosper in their adopted land, without persecution because of their religious beliefs or their ethnicity, while being respected and respecting their fellow Australians. In all my years, I've only ever met one or two what I'd describe as "bad" Muslims and that was despite their religion affiliation, not because of it. I've worked with, studied with and served with Muslims all my adult life, Soren. Indonesians, Malaysians, Indians, Pakistanis, Afghans, Turks and Syrians, to name a few. All are just ordinary people who also happen to be Muslims. Just like my other friends and associates are just ordinary people who also happen to be [insert their religious affiliation here].

What's your experience with Muslims, Soren? Do you even know any other than as passing acquaintances? Roll Eyes

Quote:

Also, you want to educate us all the time but now you won't tell us the fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam. Tell us, Brain. Or don't you know?

I provided you with a most useful link, which answers your question, Soren. If you can't make use of it, that's your look out, not mine. Roll Eyes

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moses

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Re: Terrorist protested Terror laws
Reply #54 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:55pm

Brian Ross wrote: Quote:

Essentially yes. However, if you wish to discuss the Apocrypha, removed by Luther from his German edition of The Bible in 1522 CE or the Lost Gospels which were discarded by the early Church before 397 CE, then yes, there were different versions of The Bible. However, after that date and until Luther's editing, The Bible remained essentially the same book.

Perhaps you'd like to explain what happened to the Gospel of St. Thomas? The Gospel according to Judas? All make fascinating reading but they aren't amongst the books of The Bible, now are they, Moses? Why?

I don't accept anything and everything (the writings you mention for example) as definitely being truthful or of high spiritual value. (it's a bit like you telling me islam is a religion of peace, has nothing to do with terrorism)

What was the agenda of the writings you mention?

I understand that certain writings were cast aside, as examination determined them to be disingenuous.

Quote:

Sources possibly. Authorship and editing, no.

So what? As I posted:

There are multiple sources in the Bible: prophets, prophetesses, teachings of Christ, gospels according to apostles, deacons, letters of faith, religious instructions, book of revelations etc.

The prophets, prophetesses, Christ, apostles, deacons, letters of faith, religious instructions, book of revelations. These are the proof of Christianity not being monolithic, rather a diversity of a common purpose.

Quote:

Yet, at the same time Muslims - who after all are the believers and the understanders of Mohammed's heritage, Moses will maintain the reverse.

Just as Christians today embrace the lovey-dovey, happy-clappy aspects of their religion and hide from it's bloody heritage, so have modern Muslims created a different interpretation of their religion. We should be encouraging that, Moses. You, however seem mired in the 7th century CE, as are the Islamists and fundamentalists.

Yeah, yeah sure, the tired old, it's got nothing to do with islam, they're not real muslims. Well the qur'an says differently.

Quote:

Yet we have evidence to the contrary, Moses.

The reality is that your mindset is that of the rigid zealot, the Takfiri, as the Muslims call them. For them and you, nothing can change, nothing ever has changed. You may claim to be a Christian but you've definitely missed Christ's message.

You have no evidence that all muslims don't regard as infallible, perfect and never to be changed, the terrorist doctrine of: jihad, hijrah, taqiyya and kitman, self alienation from normal society, hate speech, torture and murder of hypocrites / disbelievers / corrupters, a prophet of islam has to be a mass murderer etc.

Any muslim who believes the above to be infallible, perfect and never to be changed, also believes in the islamic terrorism the doctrine spawns.

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Soren

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Re: Terrorist protested Terror laws
Reply #55 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 4:03pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:02pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 10:21am:

Also, you want to educate us all the time but now you won't tell us the fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam. Tell us, Brain. Or don't you know?

I provided you with a most useful link, which answers your question, Soren. If you can't make use of it, that's your look out, not mine. Roll Eyes

So you don't know what the fundamental differences are between Islam and Christianity.

Fine. You can't know everything, Brain.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Terrorist protested Terror laws
Reply #56 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 7:16pm

Soren wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 4:03pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:02pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 10:21am:

Also, you want to educate us all the time but now you won't tell us the fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam. Tell us, Brain. Or don't you know?

I provided you with a most useful link, which answers your question, Soren. If you can't make use of it, that's your look out, not mine. Roll Eyes

So you don't know what the fundamental differences are between Islam and Christianity.

Fine. You can't know everything, Brain.

I have never claimed to know "everything", Soren. I am only too willing to admit my limitations. However, I am well aware of the differences between Christianity and Islam. That weblink I provided showed those differences in a clear and orderly way, more quickly and more concisely than I could in the time I had. Why are you so afraid to consult it?

Here is another, longer piece which you may find more useful, if the original weblink didn't provide the information you are seeking. Again, if you cannot or will not use the information provided, what point is there to discussing this? Unless of course, your ideas don't accord with the officially recognised differences? Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: Terrorist protested Terror laws
Reply #57 - Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 9:12pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 7:16pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 4:03pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:02pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 10:21am:

Also, you want to educate us all the time but now you won't tell us the fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam. Tell us, Brain. Or don't you know?

I provided you with a most useful link, which answers your question, Soren. If you can't make use of it, that's your look out, not mine. Roll Eyes

So you don't know what the fundamental differences are between Islam and Christianity.

Fine. You can't know everything, Brain.

I have never claimed to know "everything", Soren. I am only too willing to admit my limitations. However, I am well aware of the differences between Christianity and Islam. That weblink I provided showed those differences in a clear and orderly way, more quickly and more concisely than I could in the time I had. Why are you so afraid to consult it?

Here is another, longer piece which you may find more useful, if the original weblink didn't provide the information you are seeking. Again, if you cannot or will not use the information provided, what point is there to discussing this? Unless of course, your ideas don't accord with the officially recognised differences? Roll Eyes

I am asking you, not some other nobody on the internetz, Brain.

What do you think - if think is the word I want in your case - is the fundamental, significant, essential difference between Islam and Christianity?
Don't run away from the question, Brain. You are forever posting equivalent shite. Say it out loud that there is no difference as far as you can see - or say what the difference is.

Just be honest about where you stand - I know I am asking you the impossible but I have to give you the opportunity (again and again).
Who knows? One day you may turn honest.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Terrorist protested Terror laws
Reply #58 - Dec 24^th, 2014 at 12:50am

moses wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:55pm:

Brian Ross wrote: Quote:

Essentially yes. However, if you wish to discuss the Apocrypha, removed by Luther from his German edition of The Bible in 1522 CE or the Lost Gospels which were discarded by the early Church before 397 CE, then yes, there were different versions of The Bible. However, after that date and until Luther's editing, The Bible remained essentially the same book.

Perhaps you'd like to explain what happened to the Gospel of St. Thomas? The Gospel according to Judas? All make fascinating reading but they aren't amongst the books of The Bible, now are they, Moses? Why?

I don't accept anything and everything (the writings you mention for example) as definitely being truthful or of high spiritual value. (it's a bit like you telling me islam is a religion of peace, has nothing to do with terrorism)

What was the agenda of the writings you mention?

I understand that certain writings were cast aside, as examination determined them to be disingenuous.

The agenda didn't match that of the early Church fathers, Moses. Something I am sure you knew. I cannot believe you are so naive as to think that Christianity is not the result of some heavy editing which was undertaken by the early Church fathers which had decided upon which path they wanted the doctrine to go down. Roll Eyes

Quote:

Sources possibly. Authorship and editing, no.

So what? As I posted:

There are multiple sources in the Bible: prophets, prophetesses, teachings of Christ, gospels according to apostles, deacons, letters of faith, religious instructions, book of revelations etc.

The prophets, prophetesses, Christ, apostles, deacons, letters of faith, religious instructions, book of revelations. These are the proof of Christianity not being monolithic, rather a diversity of a common purpose.

You seem to believe that the authors of The Bible were real people, Moses.

What proof do you have of that? Why couldn't they merely been convenient narrative means to achieve the end of explaining the belief system that the Church wanted it's believers to believe in? Which is why I mentioned "editing". Always remember, editors control what goes in and what gets left out of a book and so decide what story it is going to tell.

Quote:

Quote:

Yet, at the same time Muslims - who after all are the believers and the understanders of Mohammed's heritage, Moses will maintain the reverse.

Just as Christians today embrace the lovey-dovey, happy-clappy aspects of their religion and hide from it's bloody heritage, so have modern Muslims created a different interpretation of their religion. We should be encouraging that, Moses. You, however seem mired in the 7th century CE, as are the Islamists and fundamentalists.

Yeah, yeah sure, the tired old, it's got nothing to do with islam, they're not real muslims. Well the qur'an says differently.

Just as The Bible therefore tells us that today's Christians aren't real Christians, Moses. They have foresaken the instructions in that book to wage unrelenting war on the unbelievers and to rape, pillage, enslave and burn them and their families and their cities.

Quote:

Quote:

Yet we have evidence to the contrary, Moses.

The reality is that your mindset is that of the rigid zealot, the Takfiri, as the Muslims call them. For them and you, nothing can change, nothing ever has changed. You may claim to be a Christian but you've definitely missed Christ's message.

You have no evidence that all muslims don't regard as infallible, perfect and never to be changed, the terrorist doctrine of: jihad, hijrah, taqiyya and kitman, self alienation from normal society, hate speech, torture and murder of hypocrites / disbelievers / corrupters, a prophet of islam has to be a mass murderer etc.

Any muslim who believes the above to be infallible, perfect and never to be changed, also believes in the islamic terrorism the doctrine spawns.

Just as those Christians who believe The Bible is "divinely inspired" - both Old and New Testaments, Moses. It is the literal "word of God" and should be obeyed. If it must be for Muslims, it must be for Christians too, Moses. Roll Eyes

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Re: Terrorist protested Terror laws
Reply #59 - Dec 24^th, 2014 at 2:25pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 24^th, 2014 at 12:50am:

moses wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2014 at 3:55pm:

Brian Ross wrote: Quote:

Essentially yes. However, if you wish to discuss the Apocrypha, removed by Luther from his German edition of The Bible in 1522 CE or the Lost Gospels which were discarded by the early Church before 397 CE, then yes, there were different versions of The Bible. However, after that date and until Luther's editing, The Bible remained essentially the same book.

Perhaps you'd like to explain what happened to the Gospel of St. Thomas? The Gospel according to Judas? All make fascinating reading but they aren't amongst the books of The Bible, now are they, Moses? Why?

I don't accept anything and everything (the writings you mention for example) as definitely being truthful or of high spiritual value. (it's a bit like you telling me islam is a religion of peace, has nothing to do with terrorism)

What was the agenda of the writings you mention?

I understand that certain writings were cast aside, as examination determined them to be disingenuous.

The agenda didn't match that of the early Church fathers, Moses. Something I am sure you knew. I cannot believe you are so naive as to think that Christianity is not the result of some heavy editing which was undertaken by the early Church fathers which had decided upon which path they wanted the doctrine to go down. Roll Eyes

Quote:

Sources possibly. Authorship and editing, no.

So what? As I posted:

There are multiple sources in the Bible: prophets, prophetesses, teachings of Christ, gospels according to apostles, deacons, letters of faith, religious instructions, book of revelations etc.

The prophets, prophetesses, Christ, apostles, deacons, letters of faith, religious instructions, book of revelations. These are the proof of Christianity not being monolithic, rather a diversity of a common purpose.

You seem to believe that the authors of The Bible were real people, Moses.

What proof do you have of that? Why couldn't they merely been convenient narrative means to achieve the end of explaining the belief system that the Church wanted it's believers to believe in? Which is why I mentioned "editing". Always remember, editors control what goes in and what gets left out of a book and so decide what story it is going to tell.

Quote:

Quote:

Yet, at the same time Muslims - who after all are the believers and the understanders of Mohammed's heritage, Moses will maintain the reverse.

Just as Christians today embrace the lovey-dovey, happy-clappy aspects of their religion and hide from it's bloody heritage, so have modern Muslims created a different interpretation of their religion. We should be encouraging that, Moses. You, however seem mired in the 7th century CE, as are the Islamists and fundamentalists.

Yeah, yeah sure, the tired old, it's got nothing to do with islam, they're not real muslims. Well the qur'an says differently.

Just as The Bible therefore tells us that today's Christians aren't real Christians, Moses. They have foresaken the instructions in that book to wage unrelenting war on the unbelievers and to rape, pillage, enslave and burn them and their families and their cities.

Quote:

Quote:

Yet we have evidence to the contrary, Moses.

The reality is that your mindset is that of the rigid zealot, the Takfiri, as the Muslims call them. For them and you, nothing can change, nothing ever has changed. You may claim to be a Christian but you've definitely missed Christ's message.

You have no evidence that all muslims don't regard as infallible, perfect and never to be changed, the terrorist doctrine of: jihad, hijrah, taqiyya and kitman, self alienation from normal society, hate speech, torture and murder of hypocrites / disbelievers / corrupters, a prophet of islam has to be a mass murderer etc.

Any muslim who believes the above to be infallible, perfect and never to be changed, also believes in the islamic terrorism the doctrine spawns.

Just as those Christians who believe The Bible is "divinely inspired" - both Old and New Testaments, Moses. It is the literal "word of God" and should be obeyed. If it must be for Muslims, it must be for Christians too, Moses. Roll Eyes

It is amazing how someone who claims to be as tolerant, informed, and open minded as you, can also be so intolerant, ignorant, and closed minded, towards all things Christians and western civilisation in general.

One would be lead to conclude that you are nothing but a shlt stirrer looking to get people worked up. But you are probably an immigrant Muslim yourself just pretending to be an Australian born atheist so as to give the appearance of being objective. You are so detached from reality that every word you say is simply vomit inducing.

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