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Muslims claiming to be the silent majority (Read 4434 times)
polite_gandalf
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Re: Muslims claiming to be the silent majority
Reply #45 - Dec 20th, 2014 at 12:47pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 20th, 2014 at 10:45am:
So head chopping is the only measure of your views on Islam? You are part of the majority because you are with those who merely want to jail apostates?


Thats just plain dishonest FD. Shame on you.

freediver wrote on Dec 20th, 2014 at 10:45am:
Sure, that would be simple enough, if anyone knew what your views are.


Right FD, I mean its not as if I ever went through point by point on a whole range of issues detailing exactly what my views are no is it?
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1354330218/1#1

or given a detailed essay on my thoughts on the role of ahadith in islamic law...
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1408074688/0

or articulate my views on what is meant by Muhammad's example.
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1374112477/174#174

FD will keep coming back every few weeks and claiming the last post of mine was never made. So there it is.

freediver wrote on Dec 20th, 2014 at 10:45am:
Can you quote me making that case, or is this another example of me saying things without actually saying them?


Sure, every time you raise the PEW survey. The giveaway is when you rabbit on and on about Malaysians to make some sort of point about muslims (what point FD? - you tell me) - but quietly ignore Indonesians, or indeed the overall survey sample.


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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: Muslims claiming to be the silent majority
Reply #46 - Dec 20th, 2014 at 12:52pm
 
Yes, G, but perhaps you haven’t explained your views clearly enough. FD still doesn’t know what they are.

Perhaps it would be best if you just agreed with Abu. That way, we could be done with questions once and for all.
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jackmountain
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Re: Muslims claiming to be the silent majority
Reply #47 - Dec 20th, 2014 at 12:57pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 20th, 2014 at 11:55am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 20th, 2014 at 10:56am:
polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 18th, 2014 at 10:37pm:
Death for apostasy and stoning are two of the things I oppose. Evidently most muslims from this survey agree with me. That puts me in the majority no?


Do you oppose death for homosexuals,blasphemers and witches?

If most of the muslims agree with you on the repulsive death penalty for apostasy why are you doing nothing to remove the death penalty for apostasy in 13 countries that have Islam as the state religion?


Witches?   So, according to you, the majority of Muslims believe death is an appropriate punishment for witchcraft but you seem to think that Man Haron Monis would have been acceptable to IS as a member, despite advertising he was an "export in...black magic"?   You don't see any contradiction there, Baron?  Mmmm?  Roll Eyes


Clearly you know nothing about Islam John.

As a mussey you are allowed to lie too your hearts content to all us kafirs.
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#Illridewithinfidels

Never trust a Mussey
 
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freediver
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Re: Muslims claiming to be the silent majority
Reply #48 - Dec 20th, 2014 at 5:16pm
 
Gandalf, this is your own words, from the link you quoted:

Quote:
Adultery - a crime under islamic law in which the sentence is either stoning or flogging


Quote:
Apostasy - no Quranic prescription, but most muslim scholars argue that islam prescribes death based on certain hadith.


But from this thread:

Quote:
Like I keep saying - I don't know, but it seems extremely unlikely. Just take your favourite PEW survey - almost certainly a majority of the total sample oppose both stoning for adultery and death for apostasy. Thats pretty much your entire case you've been hammering on for about a year down the gurgler. Do you have any other evidence that my views are in the minority? Ah let me guess - Abu?


What are we supposed to make of this Gandalf? You have been having a go at me all thread over "cherry picking" the adultery and apostasy results from Malaysia, yet you appear to agree with both of them.
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Karnal
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Re: Muslims claiming to be the silent majority
Reply #49 - Dec 20th, 2014 at 5:58pm
 
FD, why haven’t you ever quoted the Pew Survey on Kazakstan?

Thoughts?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Muslims claiming to be the silent majority
Reply #50 - Dec 21st, 2014 at 12:43pm
 
Wow FD you even cherry pick my posts.

freediver wrote on Dec 20th, 2014 at 5:16pm:
What are we supposed to make of this Gandalf? You have been having a go at me all thread over "cherry picking" the adultery and apostasy results from Malaysia, yet you appear to agree with both of them


From the first thread:
Quote:
This is another one of those "islamic laws" that has no quranic basis. In fact the quran prescribes a completely different form of punishment for adultery (flogging). I am extremely sceptical that stoning is part of shariah law - and given that the practice is so rare as to be virtually non-existent in the islamic world today (and I'm pretty sure has been for a long long time), it would seem the great majority of the muslim world agrees with me


As for apostasy, here's me not expressing my views - apparently:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 21st, 2013 at 11:59am:
I question the claim that islam prescribes death for apostasy. I argued that point in about the first thread I participated in on this board. I believe the confusion arises from a specific practice during the prophet's time where enemies of islam would infiltrate the muslim camp, pretend to convert, and then use their position as trusted brothers to sow discord and weaken the islamic nation. Thus the prescription was more about punishing traitors and saboteurs - of which death is standard punishment for most places - islamic or not.

In this context, the act in question is a de-facto act of war - as any nation on earth would treat it as. It therefore doesn't really come under the regular day-to-day laws that govern an islamic nation, but how to respond to an attack by a foreign aggressor. I think its pretty standard fair to execute spies and sabateurs and traitors.


polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 20th, 2014 at 4:51pm:
In fact 4:90 couldn't be more clear on the prohibition of killing non-hostile apostates/unbelievers:

So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Muslims claiming to be the silent majority
Reply #51 - Dec 24th, 2014 at 9:49am
 
Quote:
Wow FD you even cherry pick my posts.


I am pointing out your self contradictions Gandalf. I am hardly going to pick randomly am I?

Quote:
I am extremely sceptical that stoning is part of shariah law - and given that the practice is so rare as to be virtually non-existent in the islamic world today (and I'm pretty sure has been for a long long time), it would seem the great majority of the muslim world agrees with me


Except of course all those scholars:

Quote:
Adultery - a crime under islamic law in which the sentence is either stoning or flogging - depending on which islamic scholars you follow.


Also, this is the same tired old Taqiyya you and other Muslims peddle constantly. The absence of a particular punishment today from 99% of Muslim countries does not mean that 99% of Muslims reject that particular punishment. It is a logical fallacy, and the Pew survey clearly disproves it. Much of modern Muslim 'civilisation' owes itself to outside influence. It was foreign interference for example, not Muslims, that nearly brought an end to traditional Islamic slavery, despite protestations from Muslims that Islam 'encourages' the freeing of slaves. I was going to let this one slide, but you might accuse me of cherry picking if I ignore it.

Basically, you claim to represent the majority of Muslims, but you have no clue what the majority of Muslims think, and your own views on Islam are all over the place and wrapped in endless deflections. Your backpedaling reflects your unwillingness to clarify any of this, because clarity will always reflect badly on Islam and Muslims.

Why don't you use the Pew survey to find out exactly how closely your own views match those of other Muslims? Or is it a bit hard to answer when "it depends on which scholar you ask" (or what audience you are pandering to) is not one of the options?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Muslims claiming to be the silent majority
Reply #52 - Dec 24th, 2014 at 12:14pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 24th, 2014 at 9:49am:
Basically, you claim to represent the majority of Muslims, but you have no clue what the majority of Muslims think


*yawn* not getting through are we FD?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: Muslims claiming to be the silent majority
Reply #53 - Dec 24th, 2014 at 4:10pm
 
Yes, FD, but you weren’t specific enough. G has to use the Pew Survey to find out what Malaysian Muslims think.

The rest of the survey is flawed.
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