Australian Politics Forum - You can support women or Islam, not both

Soren

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Re: You can support women or Islam, not both
Reply #60 - Dec 11^th, 2014 at 7:32pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 12:32pm:

Can I play Quotsies too Soren?

To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

Genesis 3:16

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Timothy 2:8-15

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.

Ephesians 5:22

In the Bible, women are tainted and are to be forever subservient because Eve was the transgressor - not Adam:

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

1 Timothy 2:11-14

And yet, there is no ruling on a woman being worth half a man. That is left for the Koran.

What you are quoting are social norms that have been well and truly left behind without Christianity being left behind - because they are recognised not as universal rulings but as norms pertaining to a place and time.

Islam being absolutely timeless and pertaining to no particular place is unable to evolve as Christianity has evidently done.

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 45836	Re: You can support women or Islam, not both Reply #61 - Dec 11^th, 2014 at 7:37pm Traditionally, Christians have always treated women as being of less worth than a man, Soren. You're a fool if you claim otherwise.
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Brian Ross

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Re: You can support women or Islam, not both
Reply #62 - Dec 11^th, 2014 at 7:42pm

Soren wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 12:08pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 10^th, 2014 at 11:27pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 10^th, 2014 at 5:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 8^th, 2014 at 10:40pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 8^th, 2014 at 6:07pm:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 8^th, 2014 at 3:17pm:

Why can't women choose to follow Islam? I've always understood that the point of feminism was to ensure women were able to choose. Why must you Soren deny them that choice? Surely that is paternalism as bad as anything in Islam? Grin

They can and do, thereby accept their own inferiority to men.

And how is this different to the position of women within Christianity, Soren?

Afterall, women are definitely "inferior" to men in that religion. Roll Eyes

I don't think so.

Hows the feminist campaign for a female Pope coming along, Soren? Roll Eyes

Ordination of women in the Eastern Orthodox church?

How many female Bishops are there? Cardinals? Roll Eyes

The Quran...

So, you're admitting that traditionally Christians are no better than Muslims, in their attitudes towards women?

You going to answer the questions, Soren?

Where are the female clergy in the major denominations of Christianity?

No female priests, bishops, cardinals, popes in Catholicism.

No female priests, bishops, Patriarchs* in the Eastern Orthodox Churches.

Most Protestant denominations don't ordain women either. Roll Eyes

* Raises an interesting question. If women ever do get equal billing, will their title be "Matriarchs"? Grin

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Soren

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Re: You can support women or Islam, not both
Reply #63 - Dec 14^th, 2014 at 2:36pm

The West is secular and in every secular society women are equal to men.

There is no Christian or Western secular law that requires women to inherit half of what men inherit or to have her testimony be worth half of his. There is no accepted doctrine in Christianity that stands in the way of women's equality.

There is plenty in Islam.

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Brian Ross

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Re: You can support women or Islam, not both
Reply #64 - Dec 14^th, 2014 at 3:44pm

Soren wrote on Dec 14^th, 2014 at 2:36pm:

The West is secular and in every secular society women are equal to men.

True but only in the last 40 years, Soren. Of course, we aren't discussing secular societies, now are we? We're discussing religious values. Please stick to the subject rather than attempting to divert it away when you're losing the argument.... Roll Eyes

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Soren

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Re: You can support women or Islam, not both
Reply #65 - Dec 14^th, 2014 at 5:49pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14^th, 2014 at 3:44pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 14^th, 2014 at 2:36pm:

The West is secular and in every secular society women are equal to men.

True but only in the last 40 years, Soren. Of course, we aren't discussing secular societies, now are we? We're discussing religious values. Please stick to the subject rather than attempting to divert it away when you're losing the argument.... Roll Eyes

No, we are discussing the fact that you can support women or Islam, not both.

Was the change in the last 100 (not 40) years in the West worthwhile? If yes, is it only good for Western people, not others?

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 100476	Re: You can support women or Islam, not both Reply #66 - Dec 14^th, 2014 at 5:50pm Brian Ross wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 7:37pm: Traditionally, Christians have always treated women as being of less worth than a man, Soren. You're a fool if you claim otherwise. Not at all. The old boy is simply being mendacious.
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: You can support women or Islam, not both Reply #67 - Dec 14^th, 2014 at 5:59pm Brian Ross wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 7:37pm: Traditionally, Christians have always treated women as being of less worth than a man, Soren. You're a fool if you claim otherwise. Do you live a traditional life, Brain? Why not?
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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 61062 Here Gender:	Re: You can support women or Islam, not both Reply #68 - Dec 14^th, 2014 at 6:00pm You can support women or Islam, not both Women have always been expensive.
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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 45836	Re: You can support women or Islam, not both Reply #69 - Dec 14^th, 2014 at 6:07pm Soren wrote on Dec 14^th, 2014 at 5:59pm: Brian Ross wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 7:37pm: Traditionally, Christians have always treated women as being of less worth than a man, Soren. You're a fool if you claim otherwise. Do you live a traditional life, Brain? Why not? 'cause I'm not traditional?
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Brian Ross

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Re: You can support women or Islam, not both
Reply #70 - Dec 14^th, 2014 at 6:09pm

Soren wrote on Dec 14^th, 2014 at 5:49pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14^th, 2014 at 3:44pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 14^th, 2014 at 2:36pm:

The West is secular and in every secular society women are equal to men.

True but only in the last 40 years, Soren. Of course, we aren't discussing secular societies, now are we? We're discussing religious values. Please stick to the subject rather than attempting to divert it away when you're losing the argument.... Roll Eyes

No, we are discussing the fact that you can support women or Islam, not both.

Yet I mentioned Christainity's record as being no better, Soren. Why single Islam out for your attention while you ignore Christianity's ongoing abysmal one? Roll Eyes

Quote:

Was the change in the last 100 (not 40) years in the West worthwhile? If yes, is it only good for Western people, not others?

You're comparing apples and oranges, Soren. Roll Eyes

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