Australian Politics Forum - The Nitty Gritty of it all... ???

BatteriesNotIncluded

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The Nitty Gritty of it all... ???
Nov 29^th, 2014 at 2:23pm

...

"The expendable nature of the device has forced the cost per device to be low.

As a result, no pressure sensors were installed on the devices so water depth cannot be determined directly. Depth has to be inferred from a correlation of prior experiments. If the correlation is not correct, a scientist will not accurately know the depth of the probe in the water and consequently, will not be able to calculate the energy of the ocean waters. Ocean heating is the hallmark of global warming. If we can’t use XBTs to get an accurate sense of ocean heating, we are flying blind."

...

SOURCE: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2014/nov/28...

If anyone can understand the rest of the article then would they kindly explain?

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lee

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Re: The Nitty Gritty of it all... ???
Reply #1 - Nov 30^th, 2014 at 6:18pm

The ocean heat has been inferred, at least in part, by these devices, assuming depths at which the readings were taken.

Therefore the accuracy of any posited warming is in doubt.

Prior to Argo the sampling of the ocean was sparse. As at 9Nov there were 3.693 Argo (http://www.argo.ucsd.edu/) covering 335m sq km. Meaning that each buoy covers over 90k sq km. Still pretty sparse.

And Argo only covers the top 2,000m, meaning any figures for greater depths are guesses.

Apparently China may be at the forefront of research into getting data from XBT's.

Abraham's says "While we don’t know yet what the outcome is from this meeting, we see that China has taken a leading role as a scientific player."

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: The Nitty Gritty of it all... ???
Reply #2 - Dec 1^st, 2014 at 6:30pm

lee wrote on Nov 30^th, 2014 at 6:18pm:

The ocean heat has been inferred, at least in part, by these devices, assuming depths at which the readings were taken.

Therefore the accuracy of any posited warming is in doubt.

Prior to Argo the sampling of the ocean was sparse. As at 9Nov there were 3.693 Argo (http://www.argo.ucsd.edu/) covering 335m sq km.

Meaning that each buoy covers over 90k sq km. Still pretty sparse.

And Argo only covers the top 2,000m, meaning any figures for greater depths are guesses.

Apparently China may be at the forefront of research into getting data from XBT's.

Abraham's says "While we don’t know yet what the outcome is from this meeting, we see that China has taken a leading role as a scientific player."

The uncertainty principle of science in action: you can't measure everything meaning all measurement in a complex system has doubt! The ability to measure this uncertainty itself gives us confidence,... or not!

Atleast you care enough to read the link!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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lee

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Re: The Nitty Gritty of it all... ???
Reply #3 - Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 10:20am

The fact that they admit their uncertainty in the data, because they do not know the depths at which it was collected, is telling. It throws their whole baseline into disarray.

They know it is in disarray, that is not uncertainty. Any anomaly measured against it is absolute guesswork.

Even in a complex system you have to have some measure of control of data. How else to distinguish from "noise"?

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: The Nitty Gritty of it all... ???
Reply #4 - Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 6:08pm

lee wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 10:20am:

The fact that they admit their uncertainty in the data, because they do not know the depths at which it was collected, is telling. It throws their whole baseline into disarray.

They know it is in disarray, that is not uncertainty. Any anomaly measured against it is absolute guesswork.

Even in a complex system you have to have some measure of control of data. How else to distinguish from "noise"?

The uncertainty principle is a PRINCIPLE OF SCIENCE: IT HOLDS TRUE FOR EVERYTHING!

Complain about everything- such is life! May aswell sit down and cry.........."waaaaaaaaaaaaaah, waaaaaaaaaaah, mum: the universe won't give up it's secrets too easily,... waaaaaaaaaaaaaah, waaaaaaaaaahhhhhh waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh " Huh

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21609 Gender:	Re: The Nitty Gritty of it all... ??? Reply #5 - Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 10:13am Ah, Just make stuff up. The post-modern scientific principle. Like grab tree ring data and use it as a proxy for temperature. Where it diverges from what you want, splice it to thermometric record and voila - new data.
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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: The Nitty Gritty of it all... ???
Reply #6 - Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 3:10pm

lee wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 10:13am:

Ah, Just make stuff up. The post-modern scientific principle.

Like grab tree ring data and use it as a proxy for temperature. Where it diverges from what you want, splice it to thermometric record and voila - new data.

Ok lee,.. We can all see how much you love the kids by voting for copper internet!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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