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Coal seam Gas is safe - Govt report (Read 4467 times)
longweekend58
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Re: Coal seam Gas is safe - Govt report
Reply #45 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:10am
 
DaS Energy wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 6:14pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 5:24pm:
DaS Energy wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 5:21pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 5:14pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 2:29pm:
Actually self regulation in natural gas extraction is just as good as/ and often better than - statutory requirements.

The industry has been consolidating on extraction techniques and found that by shutting off deep dive valves and pumping all of it through 2 specific channels - we get both more gas and also the natural seepage rates reduce down to negligable amounts - certainly comparable to when the process first began large production.

I'd not do down self-regulation smithy, its certainly not companies doing what they like. The industry has very high standards or safety and public concern.



CSG is safe pre se, but only when proper EXTERNAL regulation and monitoring is done.  And what many of you could do well is to go a proper industry course and find out exactly what CSG is and how it operates.  Most of the nonsense you get from Lock the Gate and others is opinion without information.


Bullshit. Uncontrolled fracking opens up drinking water reserves to pollution!


no it doesn't.  and unlike you, I actually know what I am talking about.


BULLSHIT!


I cant help your ignorance.  No one can help you with that.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Coal seam Gas is safe - Govt report
Reply #46 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:12am
 
perceptions_now wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 6:46pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 5:24pm:
DaS Energy wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 5:21pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 5:14pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 2:29pm:
Actually self regulation in natural gas extraction is just as good as/ and often better than - statutory requirements.

The industry has been consolidating on extraction techniques and found that by shutting off deep dive valves and pumping all of it through 2 specific channels - we get both more gas and also the natural seepage rates reduce down to negligable amounts - certainly comparable to when the process first began large production.

I'd not do down self-regulation smithy, its certainly not companies doing what they like. The industry has very high standards or safety and public concern.



CSG is safe pre se, but only when proper EXTERNAL regulation and monitoring is done.  And what many of you could do well is to go a proper industry course and find out exactly what CSG is and how it operates.  Most of the nonsense you get from Lock the Gate and others is opinion without information.


Bullshit. Uncontrolled fracking opens up drinking water reserves to pollution!


no it doesn't.  and unlike you, I actually know what I am talking about.


"You know this", because that is what "you believe"?

As with everything, no matter what we are told & who is telling us, it needs to be backed up by what is happening, in the REAL WORLD!


And, the real world is telling us -

Family awarded $3 million in first US fracking trial


After three years of legal wrangling, a Texas family has won its case against a company engaged in hydraulic fracturing near their home. The family, which suffered tangible health deterioration after the fracking began, was awarded $3 million.

A Dallas jury ruled Tuesday in favor of the Parr family, which sued Aruba Petroleum in 2011 after each member of the family noticed a decline in health that, their attorneys argued in court, was the result of dozens of gas wells surrounding their home in Wise County, Texas.

The family was awarded nearly $3 million in what is believed to be the first fracking trial in US history.


The Parrs – Bob, Lisa, and their daughter Emma – said their health suffered beginning just months after hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, operations started in their area, which was in 2008. Lisa said her breathing was impaired, and she was inflicted with nausea and headaches. Bob reported suddenly having around three nosebleeds per week, an anomaly compared to the rest of his life, he said. And Emma also reported nosebleeds, as well as nausea and rashes. She was diagnosed with asthma soon after the drilling began.

“We can’t drink our well water,” Bob Parr told Dallas’ FOX 4 in 2011. “We can’t breathe the air without getting sick.”


The lawsuit was definitely not the first levied against a fracking company over health impacts, though it has been common for plaintiffs in such cases to settle with companies along with agreeing to strict gag orders.

“When evidence of fracking’s impacts are shown to an impartial jury in a court of law, they find them to be real and significant,” Earthworks Energy Program Director Bruce Baizel said in a statement. “And it shows why the fracking industry is reluctant to allow lawsuits of this type to go to trial.”

“We hope this lawsuit will make regulators, in Texas and around the country, reexamine their assumptions about fracking’s dangers, and their responsibility to keep the public safe,” Baizel said.

To unleash natural gas deep underground, fracking requires large volumes of water, sand, and chemicals to be pumped underground. This process has been linked to groundwater contamination, seismic activity, and a laundry list of health concerns for humans and the local environment.


http://rt.com/usa/154408-fracking-trial-family-sued/

Plus more at -
https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=a7srVPeZBOTVmQWZ34DIAQ#q=US+Fracking+Law...





wow... you would have us believe that fracking is the first industrial development to ever have a problem.  the issue isn't about SINGLE incidents but about the actual practice.  there have been demonstrable improvements in CSG (which isn't just fracking btw) over the years.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Coal seam Gas is safe - Govt report
Reply #47 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:13am
 
Kytro wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 11:15pm:
Swagman wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 6:43pm:
Kytro wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 6:38pm:
Swagman wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 12:08pm:
Lots of cash to be made and jobs to create.  Sharpen those drills.....


The report does not look at overall environmental impacts of using the product, just extracting it.


Cleaner than coal.  The treehuggers should be happy instead of whinging.

Just goes to show that the eco-socialists don't give a rat's bum about CO2 emissions they just want to stick up the mining corporations.....their hidden agenda


It's not so hidden, though most environmentalists are against further development of non-renewable sources unless it it is the only option.


Partly due to how mining companies have acted in the past when things go wrong - often denying responsibility and trying to avoid paying for the cleanup.


and there is the issue.  it isn't about CSG in particular but all use of fossil fuels.  hardly makes it a credible attack however.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: Coal seam Gas is safe - Govt report
Reply #48 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:36am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:12am:
the issue isn't about SINGLE incidents but about the actual practice


And therein lies your & the industries problem.

Their ACTUAL PRACTICE has been deplorable.

Sure you say this is a single incident & yes it is but there are another 2 or 3 hundred maybe 1000's of single instances out there waiting to be told.

Their practice has been so bad that NO ONE trust anyone anymore.

Frackers can howl about tree hugging greenies all they like, the real cause of their problems is actually themselves & no matter how much they have improved, once trust has gone it is virtually impossible to rebuild.
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longweekend58
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Re: Coal seam Gas is safe - Govt report
Reply #49 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:55am
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:36am:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:12am:
the issue isn't about SINGLE incidents but about the actual practice


And therein lies your & the industries problem.

Their ACTUAL PRACTICE has been deplorable.

Sure you say this is a single incident & yes it is but there are another 2 or 3 hundred maybe 1000's of single instances out there waiting to be told.

Their practice has been so bad that NO ONE trust anyone anymore.

Frackers can howl about tree hugging greenies all they like, the real cause of their problems is actually themselves & no matter how much they have improved, once trust has gone it is virtually impossible to rebuild.


I agree that the regulation and monitoring of this has been deplorable but that is largely the result of govts of all kinds cutting staff and cutting training.  I have trained 2 girls who were responsible for monitoring 400 CSG bores!  they knew virtually nothing about groundwater and even less about CSG.  THIS IS THE PROBLEM, not the technology.  The technology is pretty good and safe, but it still needs to be regulated and monitored properly.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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St George of the Garden
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Re: Coal seam Gas is safe - Govt report
Reply #50 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 9:11am
 
Poppycock!

You drill then send chemicals down the boreholes you contaminate aquifers.
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Re: Coal seam Gas is safe - Govt report
Reply #51 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 9:18am
 
St George of the Garden wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 9:11am:
Poppycock!

You drill then send chemicals down the boreholes you contaminate aquifers.


So says St George of the Puissant HLT - PHD
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buzzanddidj
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Re: Coal seam Gas is safe - Govt report
Reply #52 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 10:26am
 
Quote:
NSW Chief Scientist Professor Mary O'Kane delivered her (commissioned) "independent" report to the State Government after 19 months of investigating the CSG industry.






Quote:
‘Never look into anything you don't have to.
And never set up an inquiry unless you know in advance what its findings will be
.'


-  Principal Private Secretary, Bernard Woolley
Yes Minister







Tailoring a 'desirable' result in a inquiry is an all too common practice by governments
Though NONE more blatant than THIS one

Another classic example was choosing a
chronic, serial climate denier - and coal and gas advocate
- to "review" the
Renewable Energy Target


The only time I recall 'the method' failing, was John Howard appointing one of his old cronies to run an investigation into anti
LibNat
pro
Labor
bias,
within our national broadcaster - the
ABC


Howard's mate's finding was ( ... after exhaustive re-checking) was that any bias detected FAVOURED the
LibNats

i
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Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'


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Re: Coal seam Gas is safe - Govt report
Reply #53 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 10:31am
 
Wait a minute - I thought the argument was that the self-regulation regime was working just fine.  So if self-regulation is working, what impact has government on the process other than in some vague oversight?

Perhaps if more monitor staff are required, the industry will have to fork up fees instead of forking up aquifers...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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perceptions_now
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Re: Coal seam Gas is safe - Govt report
Reply #54 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 10:48am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:12am:
perceptions_now wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 6:46pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 5:24pm:
DaS Energy wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 5:21pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 5:14pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 1st, 2014 at 2:29pm:
Actually self regulation in natural gas extraction is just as good as/ and often better than - statutory requirements.

The industry has been consolidating on extraction techniques and found that by shutting off deep dive valves and pumping all of it through 2 specific channels - we get both more gas and also the natural seepage rates reduce down to negligable amounts - certainly comparable to when the process first began large production.

I'd not do down self-regulation smithy, its certainly not companies doing what they like. The industry has very high standards or safety and public concern.



CSG is safe pre se, but only when proper EXTERNAL regulation and monitoring is done.  And what many of you could do well is to go a proper industry course and find out exactly what CSG is and how it operates.  Most of the nonsense you get from Lock the Gate and others is opinion without information.


Bullshit. Uncontrolled fracking opens up drinking water reserves to pollution!


no it doesn't.  and unlike you, I actually know what I am talking about.


"You know this", because that is what "you believe"?

As with everything, no matter what we are told & who is telling us, it needs to be backed up by what is happening, in the REAL WORLD!


And, the real world is telling us -

Family awarded $3 million in first US fracking trial


After three years of legal wrangling, a Texas family has won its case against a company engaged in hydraulic fracturing near their home. The family, which suffered tangible health deterioration after the fracking began, was awarded $3 million.

A Dallas jury ruled Tuesday in favor of the Parr family, which sued Aruba Petroleum in 2011 after each member of the family noticed a decline in health that, their attorneys argued in court, was the result of dozens of gas wells surrounding their home in Wise County, Texas.

The family was awarded nearly $3 million in what is believed to be the first fracking trial in US history.


The Parrs – Bob, Lisa, and their daughter Emma – said their health suffered beginning just months after hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, operations started in their area, which was in 2008. Lisa said her breathing was impaired, and she was inflicted with nausea and headaches. Bob reported suddenly having around three nosebleeds per week, an anomaly compared to the rest of his life, he said. And Emma also reported nosebleeds, as well as nausea and rashes. She was diagnosed with asthma soon after the drilling began.

“We can’t drink our well water,” Bob Parr told Dallas’ FOX 4 in 2011. “We can’t breathe the air without getting sick.”


The lawsuit was definitely not the first levied against a fracking company over health impacts, though it has been common for plaintiffs in such cases to settle with companies along with agreeing to strict gag orders.

“When evidence of fracking’s impacts are shown to an impartial jury in a court of law, they find them to be real and significant,” Earthworks Energy Program Director Bruce Baizel said in a statement. “And it shows why the fracking industry is reluctant to allow lawsuits of this type to go to trial.”

“We hope this lawsuit will make regulators, in Texas and around the country, reexamine their assumptions about fracking’s dangers, and their responsibility to keep the public safe,” Baizel said.

To unleash natural gas deep underground, fracking requires large volumes of water, sand, and chemicals to be pumped underground. This process has been linked to groundwater contamination, seismic activity, and a laundry list of health concerns for humans and the local environment.


http://rt.com/usa/154408-fracking-trial-family-sued/

Plus more at -
https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=a7srVPeZBOTVmQWZ34DIAQ#q=US+Fracking+Law...





wow... you would have us believe that fracking is the first industrial development to ever have a problem.  the issue isn't about SINGLE incidents but about the actual practice.  there have been demonstrable improvements in CSG (which isn't just fracking btw) over the years.


It's not a SINGLE incident, there are a great number of "incidents"!
https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=a7srVPeZBOTVmQWZ34DIAQ#q=US+Fracking+Law...
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perceptions_now
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Re: Coal seam Gas is safe - Govt report
Reply #55 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 10:51am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:55am:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:36am:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:12am:
the issue isn't about SINGLE incidents but about the actual practice


And therein lies your & the industries problem.

Their ACTUAL PRACTICE has been deplorable.

Sure you say this is a single incident & yes it is but there are another 2 or 3 hundred maybe 1000's of single instances out there waiting to be told.

Their practice has been so bad that NO ONE trust anyone anymore.

Frackers can howl about tree hugging greenies all they like, the real cause of their problems is actually themselves & no matter how much they have improved, once trust has gone it is virtually impossible to rebuild.


I agree that the regulation and monitoring of this has been deplorable but that is largely the result of govts of all kinds cutting staff and cutting training.  I have trained 2 girls who were responsible for monitoring 400 CSG bores!  they knew virtually nothing about groundwater and even less about CSG.  THIS IS THE PROBLEM, not the technology.  The technology is pretty good and safe, but it still needs to be regulated and monitored properly.


So, your personal involvement/benefits are not coloring your opinion/believes, rather than allowing REAL WORLD FACTS to sort out prpoer conclusions???
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longweekend58
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Re: Coal seam Gas is safe - Govt report
Reply #56 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 11:32am
 
perceptions_now wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 10:51am:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:55am:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:36am:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:12am:
the issue isn't about SINGLE incidents but about the actual practice


And therein lies your & the industries problem.

Their ACTUAL PRACTICE has been deplorable.

Sure you say this is a single incident & yes it is but there are another 2 or 3 hundred maybe 1000's of single instances out there waiting to be told.

Their practice has been so bad that NO ONE trust anyone anymore.

Frackers can howl about tree hugging greenies all they like, the real cause of their problems is actually themselves & no matter how much they have improved, once trust has gone it is virtually impossible to rebuild.


I agree that the regulation and monitoring of this has been deplorable but that is largely the result of govts of all kinds cutting staff and cutting training.  I have trained 2 girls who were responsible for monitoring 400 CSG bores!  they knew virtually nothing about groundwater and even less about CSG.  THIS IS THE PROBLEM, not the technology.  The technology is pretty good and safe, but it still needs to be regulated and monitored properly.


So, your personal involvement/benefits are not coloring your opinion/believes, rather than allowing REAL WORLD FACTS to sort out prpoer conclusions???


did you even read my post???  or more to the point, did you UNDERSTAND it.  I was actually saying there is woefully inadequate monitoring and regulation.  You don't really think out your responses.  In fact, you don't respond at all, you simply react with your standard set of answers regardless of the actual question.

Bummer about that enormous new oil field, bigger then Suadi Arabia, huh?  I guess peak oil has been put off yet again?
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: Coal seam Gas is safe - Govt report
Reply #57 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 11:35am
 
Swagman wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 9:18am:
St George of the Garden wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 9:11am:
Poppycock!

You drill then send chemicals down the boreholes you contaminate aquifers.


So says St George of the Puissant HLT - PHD

That is actually what frackers do, Swaggy!

I don’t have a PhD, just a BSc.
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longweekend58
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Re: Coal seam Gas is safe - Govt report
Reply #58 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 12:28pm
 
St George of the Garden wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 11:35am:
Swagman wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 9:18am:
St George of the Garden wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 9:11am:
Poppycock!

You drill then send chemicals down the boreholes you contaminate aquifers.


So says St George of the Puissant HLT - PHD

That is actually what frackers do, Swaggy!

I don’t have a PhD, just a BSc.


never heard of casing of bores?  Cementing?  specific technology to waterproof a bore going thru an aquifer?  BTW that is done ALL THE TIME when drilling regular water supply or monitoring bores.  Your BSc didn't cover hydrogeology, did it?
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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perceptions_now
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Re: Coal seam Gas is safe - Govt report
Reply #59 - Oct 2nd, 2014 at 12:38pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 11:32am:
perceptions_now wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 10:51am:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:55am:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:36am:
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 8:12am:
the issue isn't about SINGLE incidents but about the actual practice


And therein lies your & the industries problem.

Their ACTUAL PRACTICE has been deplorable.

Sure you say this is a single incident & yes it is but there are another 2 or 3 hundred maybe 1000's of single instances out there waiting to be told.

Their practice has been so bad that NO ONE trust anyone anymore.

Frackers can howl about tree hugging greenies all they like, the real cause of their problems is actually themselves & no matter how much they have improved, once trust has gone it is virtually impossible to rebuild.


I agree that the regulation and monitoring of this has been deplorable but that is largely the result of govts of all kinds cutting staff and cutting training.  I have trained 2 girls who were responsible for monitoring 400 CSG bores!  they knew virtually nothing about groundwater and even less about CSG.  THIS IS THE PROBLEM, not the technology.  The technology is pretty good and safe, but it still needs to be regulated and monitored properly.


So, your personal involvement/benefits are not coloring your opinion/believes, rather than allowing REAL WORLD FACTS to sort out prpoer conclusions???


did you even read my post???  or more to the point, did you UNDERSTAND it. 
I was actually saying there is woefully inadequate monitoring and regulation.
  You don't really think out your responses. 
In fact, you don't respond at all, you simply react with your standard set of answers regardless of the actual question.

Bummer about that enormous new oil field, bigger then Suadi Arabia, huh?  I guess peak oil has been put off yet again?



Yes, my 4R's are pretty reasonable, much better than yours!

As with the usual government monitoring and regulation, their is a great deal of CRAP that still happens in the Real World, LIKE ALL OF THOSE LAW SUITS IN THE US!


To a lot of your stuff, NO, because its usually just rubbish!


I think that's been tried before with Prudhoe Bay, Mexico, Fracking & a few others, so I would count on that just yet, there's been a lot of PR CRAP before, which has amounted to 0 (nothing)!


But don't give up "believing" Longy, you just never know, the cavalry MAY just ride over the hill still, at the last moment, But that's not what good Public policy needs to be built on!


Cheers, sunshine?
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